Update 1.701+ Patch Notes – Updated 6/10/2015

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Update 1.701+ Patch Notes – Updated 6/10/2015

This topic contains 551 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  Garresh 6 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 301 through 330 (of 552 total)
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  • #233272

    Melciar
    Member

    @ Tombles, Tell me please, why do you think that PBEM is more important than the classic multiplayer? Because you are not able to play online? As well as 90% of those who discusses the balance in this thread? I do not mind PBEM mode. But why should suffer, those who play online? This rough editing skills of healing – this is an obvious failure.
    Those stupid decisions that were in use in 2014 to return. And now you have to offer to all who play MP expect some modifications ??? HAHAHAHAHAHA
    It’s fine. PBEM players have more rights than the players in the classic MP.

    #233273

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Why do you think live multiplayer is more important the PBEM?

    And if you call me stupid again, I will ban you from these forums.

    #233276

    Melciar
    Member

    Why do you think live multiplayer is more important the PBEM?

    You yourself wrote about it.

    I think the PBEM issue is more serious, so I’m choosing to fix that one.

    It’s your word?
    Maybe I’m too hard to express, but I am very sad that after the patch the game will be less diverse.
    Age of Wonders 3 – – incredible! But the balance is more mixed in the direction of a single game, and fans PBEM. This is not right, I think.

    #233279

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    You do not understand. PBEM, Multiplayer and Single Player, I have to treat them all the same. You want me to make MP more important than PBEM, but why should I? They are the same, so with this healing thing, I have to choose one. The problem healing causes in PBEM is bigger than the problem it causes in multiplayer, so I chose PBEM.

    If you don’t like it, you can make a Mod that fixes it. Flenoom knows how to make them. In the end, you and Azzazir and Zascow are the only people upset about this. Everyone else likes the change. You can say “they are the wrong kind of people” but it doesn’t matter, they are just as important as you are.

    #233284

    Melciar
    Member

    Tombles, Then another question: how to solve the problem of spam for healing the necromancer? I did not see the answer to this question.
    If you talk about unhappy … Just people do not write on the forum. I see that there is an active discussion involving only 6-7 people. Simply lobby nerf healing skill has more support.
    However, I see no point in continuing the discussion. As I see it, it is absolutely useless.

    #233285

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Dude, READ:

    •Heal Undead is now strength 25 (was 20) and once per battle (was 2 turn cooldown)

    There is no Necro Healing spam.

    #233289

    Melciar
    Member

    Dude, READ:

    •Heal Undead is now strength 25 (was 20) and once per battle (was 2 turn cooldown)

    There is no Necro Healing spam.

    Good. But…
    Why not do the same with healing from theocrat? What is the problem? Why change the healing on useless “iron heart”?

    #233291

    Melciar
    Member

    Oh… Its ALL HEALING NERF…

    #233292

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Because Necro has not a single regenerating unit except heroes (until midgame).

    #233293

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Why not do the same with healing from theocrat? What is the problem? Why change the healing on useless “iron heart”?

    Some people asked for ALL healing to be once a battle, but we thought that would make the Theocrat too weak. So we only changed the hero, and left other Theocrat healing the same.

    I want ALL heroes to have once per battle healing, I am changing Dreadnaught too.

    #233300

    For settlers I think rush production should work like normal, the 250 g nerf was good and sufficient by itself. If it needs further nerfing I think the best route is to make Heptopia +50 happiness instead of +100. Removing rush production affects regular expansion and not just settler spam, whereas lowering Heptopia targets settler spam specifically.

    For Theocrat and AD, IMO their issue in PBEM was conversion abilities, not healing (you actually needed to use multiple heals on your army to keep up with other classes). Conversion abilities have been pushed back and the possibility for extreme extension of battles for XP farming using heals has been essentially removed. So the imbalances & abuses in PBEM could have already been resolved without removing heal ability from heroes.

    Therefore, the the main reason I see for removing heal ability from heroes is to indirectly nerf Death March (which is what seems to have originally inspired this nerf according to the DM-nerf thread). If removing heal ability severely affects regular MP, then I say put it back and nerf DM in another way, perhaps just add +10 to mana-CP costs and remove it from starting spells.

    If for some reason heal must be kept removed from AD and Theocrat, I think these classes should be buffed in other ways. Their main advantages before were a strong early game but now that their early game advantage is gone, they are weaker than other classes.

    Thanks for your work Tombles.

    #233308

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Latest Changes – 2/10/2015

    • Theocrat’s Healing Aura now costs 3 points (was 4), comes at leve1 1 (was 3)
    • Nightwish is now Tier 4 (was 5) 400 knowledge (was 700), casting cost is 60 (was 100), maintain cost is 5 (was 20)
    • Archdruid now gets Befriend Animal at level 3 (was 5), cost is 3 points (was 2)
    • Archdruid now gets Nourishing Meal at level 3 (was 5)
    • Reassemble is now Tier 4 (was 3), 450 knowledge (was 180), Hero Upgrade is available from level 7 (was 5)
    • Heptatopia now counts Towns, not cities of any size
    • Fixed a bug that meant sometimes the Empire Quest system wouldn’t recognize that you had a metropolis
    • Settlers can once again be hurried as they’re produced
    • Dreadnaught Heroes now get “Emergency Repair” instead of repair machine, a once per battle heal that fixes 25 damage.
    • Engineers now get “Emergency Repair” instead of repair machine at gold medal, a once per battle heal that fixes 25 damage.

    I’ve walked back a few nerfs on AD and Theocrat, and now Dreadnaught is stuck with one healer per battle like everyone else. As widely requested, the “No rush settlers” thing has been reverted.

    #233310

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    For settlers I think rush production should work like normal, the 250 g nerf was good and sufficient by itself. If it needs further nerfing I think the best route is to make Heptopia +50 happiness instead of +100. Removing rush production affects regular expansion and not just settler spam, whereas lowering Heptopia targets settler spam specifically.

    Done! With Heptatopia, I opted for making the requirements town rather than reducing the rewards. 50 happiness just isn’t worth it, it feels bad, so I’d rather make it a bit harder to get than nerf the reward.

    #233317

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Speaking of Death March, I’m currently testing the Orcs and Warlord.

    The “problem” I have here is that it’s pretty demanding and interesting to play this correctly and use Death March wisely to accelerate exploration, so from that angle it’s fun and all. The question is whether that speed can really be matched.

    The main ingredient to make things more difficult for Orcs (after making Healing stuff more difficult to acquire), is setting defender strength to strong. With stromg defenders things will probably work out, but I’m quite uncertain with normal defenders.

    For PBEM time will tell – the question NOW is how Orc Warlord fares in MP with the new patch. Any experience here?

    #233319

    Azazir
    Member

    @tombles
    Hey, how about to look at some Racial Goverment upgrades?

    For example elf military RG1 gives +1 not only to archer, but to the hunters either.
    Why should dfarf military RG1 works only at dfarf basic crossbowman unit? I think it will be nice and logical to add this minor bonus to bards and monsterhunters, cuz they got just the same heavycrossbow.

    #233321

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Why should dfarf military RG1 works only at dfarf basic crossbowman unit? I think it will be nice and logical to add this minor bonus to bards and monsterhunters, cuz they got just the same heavycrossbow.

    OK, that’s fair. I’ll send a note to look into it on Monday!

    #233330

    @ Ayy, the whole point of the Settler nerf was precisely to make it riskier.

    Before this beta patch there was no risk in putting out 2-3 extra towns. You could do that and still have a recent army.

    Now you are required to think about it and now people want that changed.

    As far as I’m concerned, if you like cities so much go play Civ.

    #233333

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Also, I haven’t seen any balance threads about how hard it is to beat Necro using Theocrat. Did you guys figure it out yet?

    #233336

    quo
    Member

    Have you ever considered moving the requirement building for Settlers over to Granaries or even Public Baths/Hospitals instead of Builder’s Halls? The Settler would seem closer related to the Granary/Bath/Hospital tree, being that that is the tree that grants population. And it would shut down the strategy of settling or conquering a cheap Settler production city.

    Baths and Hospitals are weird thematically but IMO “right” strategically, Granary is right for both but less of a diversive path.

    Anyway, moving Settlers away from Builder’s Halls would force some diversion in play. Right now the Builder’s Hall is 100% of the time the top building to rush at Turn 1, at least for me. You get Hammers, Settlers, and Builders out of the deal. The Builder Hall not only gives the Settler, it gives hammers to build Settlers faster, which if you had to go down the population/happy tree instead you wouldn’t have those hammers.

    #233337

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Have you ever considered moving the requirement building for Settlers over to Granaries

    That does actually make sense, I hadn’t considered that before. Someone suggested the Siege Workshop, but I shot that idea down. What does everyone else think?

    #233338

    madmac
    Member

    That does actually make sense, I hadn’t considered that before. Someone suggested the Siege Workshop, but I shot that idea down. What does everyone else think?

    I like it.

    #233345

    quo
    Member

    That does actually make sense, I hadn’t considered that before. Someone suggested the Siege Workshop, but I shot that idea down. What does everyone else think?

    I like it both because I suggested it <g>, and because right now it actually makes sense to sell Granaries back once a city hits Metropolis. If you needed a Granary to build a Settler, you might at least think about holding onto them.

    #233349

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    If you think that through, Settlers might be a consequence of too high pop growth. This would somewhat change the mechanic somewhat, but what would make a lot of sense would be a counter. Each turn a certain crittical pop growth mark would reached, the counter would move 1, until a certain level was reached – which might be different for different races. IF that level was reached you could build a settler.
    Also, in that case you might not only have to pay with population, but a settler might also cost population growth.

    That would be a new mechanic, but it sounds pretty cool, writing about it.

    This would also limit USELESS pop growth, since building settlers would lead to slowed pop growth which would be quite interesting.

    EDIT: The Store House is the only building of that sequence that makes sense (the rest would be more of a reason to not leave town), so the best angle would still be POP GROWTH. Would it be possible to somehow make the availability of a settler dependent on pop growth AND maybe population as a whole (must be town, and pop growth must be X % over “normal” for Y turns)?

    #233353

    Garresh
    Member

    I like the idea of granaries for settlers, although perhaps a slight bump to population cost should come as well?

    #233356

    granary is actually pretty thematically useful, and would make two prerequisites (builders hall and granary) before settler spawning.

    A more wide ranging solution would be to make producing a settler have a -100 happiness penalty on the city for five turns (when produced). So then the faster you produce settlers, the more unhappiness you get in your capital (and with the heptatopia nerf, won’t just get back quickly).

    #233359

    Lol @ you guys. Gloweye suggested exactly this a week plus ago, albeit for a mod (that he’s already made iirc).

    And I flagged up his idea 3 days ago :p.

    Anyway, I think it’s a great idea.

    #233364

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    As such I don’t think it makes much sense, because the +100 population is something that would make sense only, if a settler – or something else – would reduce population GROWTH as I already suggested.

    Would that be possible? Let a settler cost, say, 500 pop on top plus -50 pop growth?

    #233365

    @ JJ, thematically that makes sense. Less people means less babies etc.

    Would it be useful in game though?

    Worth exploring imho, making population more of a resource.

    #233388

    Unless current nerfs are removed, I think the only change that might be okay is making granary required.

    Any pop changes seem overly complicated and are not really balance changes, as much as just changes to game design.

    #233394

    Zaskow
    Member

    Latest Changes – 2/10/2015

    Reasonable changes. However, @tombles, your position about live MP makes us very sad. 🙁 Balance mod from me will be almost imminent.

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