Update 1.701+ Patch Notes – Updated 6/10/2015

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Update 1.701+ Patch Notes – Updated 6/10/2015

This topic contains 551 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  Garresh 5 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 511 through 540 (of 552 total)
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  • #233979

    quo
    Member

    You should have six or seven or eight by turn twenty at the latest. What settings are you using? What race and specialization do you pick?

    Usually Frostling Theocrat, sometimes something else. I am familiar with how long it takes and it is involved to do it. The people who don’t complain are, I suspect, mostly using auto combat. Especially those cheesy stacks of like 6 Martyrs (see what I said earlier about playing Martyrs totally not like Martyrs but rather as some kind of Dwarf Prospector). I know the formulas involved. I probably could level 7 Martyrs. But then I think of how many rocks I’d have to throw to do it and realize I’d rather be doing virtually anything else. I live a much happier existence with this Evolve modded out and Martyrs simply getting Resurgence, allowing them to perform the role they were intended to instead of being the resident rock thrower who evolves into a cool unit.

    BTW, turn 40 is when the last of the 3 or so Martyrs I bother to level shows up. The first one is probably around Turn 25, depending. Seriously, the only thing really putting brakes on when it happens is my endurance for throwing rock after rock.

    meh. you get negative race relations and lose out on a turn of leveling, so I think it is pretty ok as an option.

    XP earned for the kill makes it worth it. 40 XP is like two battles. Plus you get the dead guy’s weapon for free, pure gold if you started as a Dread or a Warlord. I never miss a chance to open the game with this move. For now, anyway. 😉

    #233981

    ephafn
    Member

    Fun fact: Due to a bug in how the XP system was coded, it’s sometimes more efficient to get your hero to take potshots at the unit and have your T1 unit finish it off!

    While I did mention something related to that fact (more XP from shooting a crossbow than one-shotting a tier 1 unit for heroes), I pretty much assumed that it was common knowledge. I guess being the game designer (and thus thinking of the right behavior) skews the perception of the game a little 😛 .

    I tried fixing it, but it messed everything up. Heroes started leveling super slowly (in a test game I got my starting heroes to level 2 around turn 6/7) while T1s started leveling really fast. So I had to undo the changes and put it back to being broken, because that’s what the game is balanced around :)

    I really hope that there will be another round of beta, since changing that behavior would make the game better (well, I can only guess, but still). Yes you will need much rebalancing, but I expect such rebalancing will pretty much only require changing the XP amounts required for medals and levels, for which users should be able to help during the beta cycle.

    #234005

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I think it works alright, actually, because T1s still make a lot of XP by being hit by higher tier units, and getting XP according to the tier you hit would make it very difficult to level up the high-tier monsters.
    So while it may sound strange, it’s the practical thing to do. So I was always thinking it works that way because it makes sense from a gaming point of view (T1 needs 10 points for L1, T4 needs 40. Longbowman gets 1 point for a shot, Manticore Rider 4 for a hit. However, Longbowman gets 6 points, when hit by a full support salvo – Manticore Rider gets the same 6 points, so in the end it works out fine).

    The one thing I’m not quite satisfied with is the XP levels needed for Heroes to level up. I think they level up a tad too fast – not much, but a bit.

    #234009

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    I really hope that there will be another round of beta, since changing that behavior would make the game better (well, I can only guess, but still). Yes you will need much rebalancing, but I expect such rebalancing will pretty much only require changing the XP amounts required for medals and levels, for which users should be able to help during the beta cycle.

    I looked into keeping the system, but changing the amount of XP heroes needed to level up, but I had some problems:

    1) Without extensive testing, it’s very hard for me to judge what XP levels would give the best results. I tried a 30% reduction, and it seemed OK, but it would probably have needed a lot of adjustment.

    2) The change would have been very weird for existing saves. People would have loaded their saves to suddenly have their heroes level up 3 or 4 times.

    3) The guy who designed the XP system is currently on leave, so I can’t know 100% for sure that the problem is supposed to be fixed.

    #234020

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Tombles, I think XP gaining for creatures is fine and works as intended. Don’t fix what isn’t broken.
    Then the last patch is all about limiting XP farming especially of heroes.

    I can’t find a table where the level needs, but I think the system works that way, that you need 50 points for the first 4 level gains each:
    50 for L2
    100 for L3
    150 for L4
    200 for L5

    then the difference ups to 75
    275 for L6
    350 for L7

    and so on, until at some level it ups to 100 points and so on.

    I think that this progression is too slow.

    It should probably be something like
    50 for L2
    100 for L3
    175 for L4
    250 for L5
    350 for L6
    450 for L7
    575 for L8
    700 for L9
    850 for L10
    1000 for L11…

    More in that range.
    At lest there should be a way to “adjust” the ladder somewhat in the game options.

    I know: good timing bringing that up now. 🙂

    #234025

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Well it’s too late to fix now, but if you want to mod it, look in HeroGlobalSettings.rpk.

    #234027

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    That was easy. 🙂

    Mod done, will try it in the evening.

    #234028

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Final update before release!

    Latest Changes – 6/10/2015

    • Freezing Touch, Frost Aura, Inflict Frozen Paralysis, Inflict Frostbite and Inflict Chilling now affect machines and boats
    • The modding tools now create a backup of a ACP file before saving it to help prevent data loss. The backupwill have the extension .~acp
    • Rogues now get Invisibility at level 7 for 4 points (this only affects the hero, not their stack)
    #234033

    Logged in just to give a big thumbs up for the changes above and those of October 5th.

    My compliments Tombles for listening to all suggestions and remarks – not to mention your ability to come up with only sensible changes, especially after taking that all into account – and your great responsiveness here on the forum. Thanks!

    I really like that Healing is back, if only because it is (arche)typical for AD and Theo.

    Still think Healing on cooldown can be abused, so once per combat (and +5 / obtained on lower level) could benefit the game. And / or that Healing should work only passively at EOT if the ability has not been used in combat that turn. I think the implications of the latter are really worth some consideration. (Apologies that I cannot leave this aspect alone and bring it up again).

    #234034

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Was that way in AoW 2.

    #234036

    quo
    Member

    Freezing Touch, Frost Aura, Inflict Frozen Paralysis, Inflict Frostbite and Inflict Chilling now affect machines and boats
    The modding tools now create a backup of a ACP file before saving it to help prevent data loss. The backupwill have the extension .~acp
    Rogues now get Invisibility at level 7 for 4 points (this only affects the hero, not their stack)

    Very nice.

    50 for L2
    100 for L3
    175 for L4
    250 for L5
    350 for L6
    450 for L7

    You can adjust it how you want, but IMO with those numbers I doubt if an AI opponent could progress past level 3. 😀

    FWIW I did try to write a mod that upped AI XP gain by 100%, but couldn’t get it to work. I have a post about that in the mod folder (the question is somewhere in the Lunar spec thread) if anyone thinks they know a solution. Writing the skill that grants the XP gain isn’t the issue, it’s identifying an AI opponent and applying the trait to them.

    #234040

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I intend to use it with Strong and very strong defenders – maybe I wasn’t clear about it. With “normal” defenders, it’s ok-ish, although I still would VERY slightly increase the levels.
    Also, I don’t know what kind of maps you are playing. In a recently finished PBEM game I faced a level 17 AI hero (which wasn’t a defeated human hero or something, but an AI player (in a 4/4 Large PBEM game), which was pretty good, actually. Keep in mind farming tactics will be greatly reduced.

    #234048

    Sir Toine
    Member

    that’s some very cool change for the rogue and finally bards got some love.
    They’re nice siege units now.
    im happy.

    #234053

    quo
    Member

    In a recently finished PBEM game I faced a level 17 AI hero (which wasn’t a defeated human hero or something, but an AI player (in a 4/4 Large PBEM game), which was pretty good, actually. Keep in mind farming tactics will be greatly reduced.

    Large maps, normal defenders.

    The highest level AI hero I can remember seeing is around Level 7, around Turn 70. Normally they are closer to level 5 or 6, around the time my heroes hit level 14 or 15.

    #234059

    Zaskow
    Member

    Inflict Frostbite now affect machines and boats

    Hmm, but does this look illogical? Machines has nothing to frostbite.

    #234063

    Azazir
    Member

    @tombles
    First of all i remind you about dfarf military RG1 change idea. Halfling RG affects all slingshot units, as well as elven RG affects hunters too. So dfarfs monsterhunters (and may be bards) should get their heavycrossbow bonus too.

    Then i got some more feedback about new changes.
    1)I tried new bards and found them a bit overpowered, easy to mass and abuse.
    I think bards should be toned down a bit…15% price increase and minus 1 resistance point could solve it.
    2)In situation of global healnerf i think orc +10 hp every battle is pretty imbalanced. That is a really massive bonus in reality of betapatch…i recomend to try +8 at least…still this is huge enough.
    3)I tried several multiplayer macrogames with necromancer, and his lategame economic is a frustrating thing really.
    I ve got the same city number as my human opponent, still i got only 700 RG points at the time my enemy got 1500 RG points.
    Lategame without moralebonuses is a pure suffer. U got only fixed +15% citybonus, and your enemy in lategame very likely got his superior 50%!!! Happybonus + almost every turn he got festivals giving him +400 gold or +300 research just for free.
    So, @tombles, would you like the idea to add a lategame empire research for necromancers that will add another +15% city bonus (30% in total), for example cost 750 researchpoints (so it affects lategame only and wont buff early and midgame)
    30% + no festivals = still very inferior to max 50% happy + huge amounts of festivals for living classes, but this certanly will make necromancer lategame a bit more comfortable.

    #234066

    Taykor
    Member

    Hmm, but does this look illogical? Machines has nothing to frostbite.

    Wording may not be perfect, but they certainly do have something to chill. Joints could become stiff, lubricants could thicken, materials become brittle, pipes could freeze and break, especially remembering that this are magical effects.

    #234070

    Zaskow
    Member

    Wording may not be perfect, but they certainly do have something to chill. Joints could become stiff, lubricants could thicken, materials become brittle, pipes could freeze and break, especially remembering that this are magical effects.

    That’s why we have working Inflict Chilling, no?

    However, it is not fundamentally for me. More debuffs for machines are better…

    First of all i remind you about dfarf military RG1 change idea. Halfling RG affects all slingshot units, as well as elven RG affects hunters too. So dfarfs monsterhunters (and may be bards) should get their heavycrossbow bonus too.

    You want to buff dwarven MH (already the most powerful in line) further. For what?

    #234074

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Hi Azazir,

    I’m afraid that it’s too late to make any more changes for this patch. I did say I would look into the Dwarf RG1 thing, but I’m afraid I was very busy and I forgot. I’m sorry I didn’t have a chance to do anything about it!

    #234111

    MartyD81
    Member

    Freezing Touch, Frost Aura, Inflict Frozen Paralysis, Inflict Frostbite and Inflict Chilling now affect machines and boats

    Rationale behind this particular change? I do not think this was really necessary, there already are ways of effectively dealing with machines and boats.

    #234114

    Zaskow
    Member

    Rationale behind this particular change? I do not think this was really necessary, there already are ways of effectively dealing with machines and boats.

    Hmm, why then machines must be immunized vs. frost debuffs?

    #234117

    Garresh
    Member

    It just doesn’t make sense for machines to be frost immune on top of all their existing immunities. Plus have you ever tried to start an old car in cold weather? Engines and industrial machinery often run into problems in cold weather. Now usually once an engine heats up its not a problem, but we’re talking magical ice here. That stuff would make sense to really mess up an engine, or on the case trebuchets make the wood brittle or coat ropes and pulleys in ice.

    #234118

    machines and ice is why Operation Barbarossa failed….. Especially as all dreadnought stuff seems to be steam punk with some magical assistance, a cold boiler means the whole thing is caput.

    #234121

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Rationale behind this particular change? I do not think this was really necessary, there already are ways of effectively dealing with machines and boats.

    They’re completely immune to 2 damage channels, I don’t think they need to be immune to half of a 3rd.

    I think what happened was Frostbite was made to not affect Machines/Boats, and then other debuffs followed suit, despite it not really being appropriate, or needed.

    #234139

    Taykor
    Member

    Does anyone think that Swallow Whole is too strong? The thing is, you have around 100% probability to be eaten if you attack Glutton in melee with an over 50hp hero (even if it can’t really damage the hero due to high def and other things, it’s still very tough and it takes time to kill the Glutton and it will definitely eat the hero). Smaller units are eaten even faster, and this ability doesn’t have any cooldown. Of course, this is a dwelling unit, but it appears in dungeons, plus there is at least one artifact with the ability. And this ability just blocks melee (apart from one-strike flanking).

    #234149

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    No, Swallow Whole is ok, because the Glutton is ok. It’s no walkover, but Glutton has two main weaknesses: it’s slow and has low defense. The high Res can be used to its disadvantage by trying things on it that inhibit movement, if they FAIL, for example, Throw Curse. The deadliest spell on it is Stiffen Limb (which is OP 🙂 ). Reducing speed makes it wide open for ranged Archer attacks.
    Plus, as long, as there is just one unit swallowed, you get the unit back, when you kill the Glutton.

    #234151

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    That said, Swallow Whole isn’t in the UnitProperties Pack, right? IS it somewhere in those packs?

    #234158

    Hiliadan
    Member

    @tombles: there is a kind of bug in PBEM that happened in the tournament in my group, it would be great if it could be fixed. 🙂
    When several players reach the conditions for an Empire Quest to be completed the same turn, only the first in the turn order receive the bonus. For instance for Heptatopia, the first to reach 7 cities (before v1.702) gets the +100 but the second, even he reached 7 cities on the same turn, gets nothing.
    It isn’t fair and it doesn’t make sense: if the turn order had been different at the beginning of the game, the bonus would have been given to someone else.

    The easiest fix would be to change the conditions checked by the game so that it checks nobody else has reached the conditions in that turn or before (and not strictly before that turn). So that every players fulfilling the conditions during the same turn get the bonus. (then maybe the display have to be changed too)

    EDIT: it was reported here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/end-of-summer-pbem-tournament-24-player-maximum-beer-league/page/8/#post-229737

    #234163

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    When several players reach the conditions for an Empire Quest to be completed the same turn, only the first in the turn order receive the bonus. For instance for Heptatopia, the first to reach 7 cities (before v1.702) gets the +100 but the second, even he reached 7 cities on the same turn, gets nothing.

    To be clear, are you saying that the behavior changed in the new patch? Or does it still happen?

    I understand that you don’t think it’s fair and all, but the system is written in such a way that only one player can win an empire quest, so it’s not really possible to put in the change that you ask.

    #234167

    Hiliadan
    Member

    No, I mean Heptatopia changed, not that issue.

    Then is it possible that nobody gets the bonus? For instance when the second player starts his turn, the system sees he reached the conditions the same turn and cancels the first player bonus and says nobody won thr EQ.

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