Update 1.701+ Patch Notes – Updated 6/10/2015

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Update 1.701+ Patch Notes – Updated 6/10/2015

This topic contains 551 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  Garresh 5 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 12 posts - 541 through 552 (of 552 total)
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  • #234172

    quo
    Member

    That said, Swallow Whole isn’t in the UnitProperties Pack, right? IS it somewhere in those packs?

    It’s in AoWUnitProperties.rpk, on the Active Abilities – Modifiers – DLC2 spreadsheet.

    #234176

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Probably the only spread I did not check. 🙂
    Thanks for the info.

    #234357

    m007kuzya
    Member

    To an extent yes you have to play the situation such that the martyr gains the killing blow. It’s only tactical to do so, just like how most players will try to grant heroes the killing blow sometimes by attacking with a weaker ranged attack first.

    Fun fact: Due to a bug in how the XP system was coded, it’s sometimes more efficient to get your hero to take potshots at the unit and have your T1 unit finish it off!

    When I was doing the XP stuff last week, I discovered that when you attack/touch a unit, the XP you gain isn’t based on the tier of the target, but the tier of the attacker. So, if a hero attacks a T1 unit, he gets 3xp, when he should only get 1xp. Similarly, a T1 unit gets 1xp for landing an attack on a T4, when he should get 4xp. The killing blow though, is always valued at the tier of the killed unit times 5.

    So, if your hero hits a T1 unit 3 times with his bow, he gets 9xp. If he hits once and kills the T1 unit, he only gets 8xp (3xp for the hit and 5xp for the kill). Your T1 gets 3xp for 3 hits on the the T1 unit, but 6xp for a single blow that kills it.

    I tried fixing it, but it messed everything up. Heroes started leveling super slowly (in a test game I got my starting heroes to level 2 around turn 6/7) while T1s started leveling really fast. So I had to undo the changes and put it back to being broken, because that’s what the game is balanced around :)

    This is a bug? But why? As i understand, attacks – is just a one of the type of ability. And such as all other ability, for it use units get xp=his_tier*2 (only for triple attacks it is exception, and for triple attack unit gets xp=his_tier*number_of_attacks_he_deals).
    And this works well and balanced.
    So, i guess, if you change xp-rule for attacks, this change can affect all other abilities. Or you can separetly change attack abilities and other abilities (such as heal)?

    #234358

    m007kuzya
    Member

    Tombles I’m willing to bet, that it’s actually a buff for Live MP, because of the raise to 25 points. Hiring a 2nd Necro immediately you have 50 points in battle and 50 points between turns, regular regeneration would be 36, so make the math yourself. Once you can enlist Reanimators things proceed rather smoothly on all levels – keep in mind, you also get better troops than the other Classes (at start), so I wouldn’t be too worried about Necro.

    But you also must keep in mind, that in a battle you must exchange attack or cast for heal, that not always best choose. And between turns you can heal only first unit in stack, that with adding inability to change order units in the stack – make heal by Hero/Reanimators a much harder and totally different from natural regeneration!

    #234366

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    And this works well and balanced.

    I know it does, but it wasn’t the original design 🙂 The original design, as far as I know, said the amount of XP you got for doing something was based around the tier of the target, not the person doing the something.

    It makes more sense that way. Why bother making Tier 2 units need more XP to level up, if they also earn more XP for everything they do?

    #234372

    m007kuzya
    Member

    I know it does, but it wasn’t the original design The original design, as far as I know, said the amount of XP you got for doing something was based around the tier of the target, not the person doing the something.

    Omg %)
    So this WiKi is just a detailed discription of a bug?..
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Unit_Experience

    It makes more sense that way. Why bother making Tier 2 units need more XP to level up, if they also earn more XP for everything they do?

    Hm :/ Really, why? 🙂
    So only XP taken from “Killing Blow” and “Being Attaked” action are correlated with units Tier requirements XP for level Up …
    And, this is not designed from Developers? Lol 😀

    #234376

    Garresh
    Member

    Actually the more I think about the “broken” exp system, the more sense it makes in my eyes. Consider, a tier 2 vs a tier 1. Both take 10 attacks to reach level 2. However, kills help a tier 2 less. So it makes exp fairly uniform across tiers since the amount of battles available are somewhat limited, but kill exp always affects lower tiers at a higher relative value.

    While I do not necessarily agree or disagree with this system personally, it seems to mathematically fit the nature of a strategy game with rpg elements, as leveling should be important, but not so important it becomes the solitary focus. And amusingly enough it actually limits the exp abuse in some ways as units get the same exp for stalling out fights, whereas under the intended system you would be encouraged to have your high tiers kill trash defenders of tier 1s while your other units threw ranged attacks at an enemy ogre.

    One system encourages abuse. The other only really allows abuse with stunlocks and last-hitting with important units. Are you sure this change wasn’t intentional? Theoretically, the current broken system actually interferes with optimal tactics less than the original system.

    #234379

    Garresh
    Member

    Furthermore, the original exp system would make it so that optimally farming exp directly opposes optimal strategy. The current exp system doesn’t care. Play correctly and you’ll still get good exp. To be honest, having played games where the exp farming becomes a strategic decision, it can actually become incredibly unenjoyable. Feeling like you have to fight in a suboptimal way to even get a small amount of exp where it needs to go is very frustrating. Lots of Japanese tactics games have this mechanic and while it may fit a dedicated rpg, in a strategy game it feels off to require you to not use strategy to instead make numbers go up.

    All things being said, this current system actually makes more sense theoretically. Even if there was time to change it, I’m not sure I would at this phase. Accident or no, it actually does work really well.

    #234383

    Garresh
    Member

    And while I’m on a ramble, consider one of the most successful rpg series of all time: the Elder Scrolls. They have always used a flat exp per action system to improve skills. There are some tweaks based on certain interactions, but in general you get exp for simply using abilities, regardless of the enemies hit. Where things get interesting is stronger enemies usually take more attacks to kill, and heavily defended areas have more enemies which means more attacks. This naturally means that even with flat exp gains, more dangerous and interesting areas will still give higher exp gains that a simple bandit camp.

    Now with age of wonders, why would an archer learn more from shooting a giant than a wolf? Its not the caliber of the target, but the experience from simply being in the field surviving and being useful. Simply being out and about participating in fights should lead to a steady rate of exp gains, which is what the current system encourages.

    In short, the broken system is actually better designed than the original intended system. Even if it could be fixed, it shouldn’t. There is less potential for abuse, and more sensible gameplay as a result from the current system. 🙂

    #234403

    quo
    Member

    And while I’m on a ramble, consider one of the most successful rpg series of all time: the Elder Scrolls. They have always used a flat exp per action system to improve skills.

    Kind of a nitpick on my part, but IMO the Elder Scrolls has one of the worst XP systems of all time. At least Morrowind (I think it was) did. It was the game I was alluding to when I was talking about feeling the need to “jump all the time.” Having to avoid taking certain actions and accidentally leveling up in the “wrong” way–terrible design! I never understood how that game was successful. God that XP system was an abomination, so glad AoW (bugged or not) is nothing like that game.

    I agree with you that the broken AoW system actually works out mostly okay. Units still get extra XP for killing stuff.

    #234408

    In short, the broken system is actually better designed than the original intended system. Even if it could be fixed, it shouldn’t. There is less potential for abuse, and more sensible gameplay as a result from the current system.

    Not to mention that the other version would “take the top off” the unit structure, since high medal tier 1 units are equal to tier 2 units but have less upkeep. So min max strategy would be to level up hunters/dwarf axemen/raiders/other really good low tier units and then rush the stuff out of everyone else (which would be easy because of lower level heroes). Tier inequality (occupy AOW III against the top 1% tier units!) makes the game more fun.

    As is, you can chose to nurture your tier 1’s to get high medals/evolves, or move on to higher tier strategies.

    #234412

    Garresh
    Member

    And while I’m on a ramble, consider one of the most successful rpg series of all time: the Elder Scrolls. They have always used a flat exp per action system to improve skills.

    Kind of a nitpick on my part, but IMO the Elder Scrolls has one of the worst XP systems of all time. At least Morrowind (I think it was) did. It was the game I was alluding to when I was talking about feeling the need to “jump all the time.” Having to avoid taking certain actions and accidentally leveling up in the “wrong” way–terrible design! I never understood how that game was successful. God that XP system was an abomination, so glad AoW (bugged or not) is nothing like that game.

    I agree with you that the broken AoW system actually works out mostly okay. Units still get extra XP for killing stuff.

    Well, I was more referring to Skyrim than Morrowind. The fault of such a system is that it comes down to different actions affecting different exp sets. If the sets are unified, that problem disappears. And lo and behold, the exp sets are unified in AOw.

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