Update v1.5 Patch Notes – UPDATED 7/4/2015

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Update v1.5 Patch Notes – UPDATED 7/4/2015

This topic contains 439 replies, has 112 voices, and was last updated by  Weltenreiter 5 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 61 through 90 (of 440 total)
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  • #165943

    Buczer
    Member

    It’s absurd that humans would hinge so much on liking water to be interesting or have depth.

    They got devastating charge, evolving cav, blessed arrows, higher production bonus and spirit ray for Evangelists. They also don’t dislike arctic anymore which can be significant.

    Frostlings like barrens yet there’s no race that dislikes or hates barrens. Does that suddenly make Frostlings shallow or pointless?

    And mariner is useful, you just need to play a water map like islands. Nor is water any more of a weakness for humans than any other race. And let’s not forget swimming, water concealed assassins.

    You mean orcs, not frostlings, right? If it was an only trait of orcs, yes, they would be shallow. Yet they also gain racial bonuses and weaknesses as well forcing them to THINK.
    Mariner trait WAS usefull. With watter morale boost it really made humans a watter powerhouse. Now bennefits are now illusionary – it makes human embarked units equal against flyers, floaters and ships. In fact, on island maps racial t3 flyers will be better than f.e. embarked knights, becouse they do not suffer embarkation movement costs. But i must admit human assasins are perfect – one of the most cost efective mobile attacker in game.
    Spirit ray is already easly atachable for humans – just buy priest and you have one. (priest was the one redeming unit for humans long ago btw). Devastating charge is addition to unit wich was already strong with charging, it makes it just stronger. Blessed arrows for archers, while usefull flanking bonus, is just a small spirit damage, if i want one i can always play teocrats anyway. Evolving cavalery was probably made to add some uniqueness to already shalow (but usefull) unit. I must yet see if this increased production bonus will make humans more interesting, it was quite difficult to even notice before.

    Look, i do not whine becouse humans are UP or what. They aren’t. Actually the only unit I dont use at all is longsworsman. But yes, In my opinion humans will lack a deph thay had before a patch. Personally, i think i will lost some fun with playing humans and mercilessly abuse my naval power against other races. But hell, i can always play goblins to fight partisan battles against others.

    #165948

    chronobomb
    Member

    Also with elemental damage channels being added to many units, any unit with physical resistance is being nerfed by proxy and should be rebalanced with these changes being made.

    #165989

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    I’ve updated the patch notes to fix the issues that were reported in them:

    – It is deliberate that Touch Of Faith can only be cast once a battle (the beta testers felt it was too easy to cheese XP with it the other way)
    – Fixed descriptions of Holy/Unholy Champion
    – Fixed line about Tomb having both Chant of Unlife and Mass Curse (it only has the former, not the latter)
    – Halfing Exalted do have 55hp, like the others

    Also, I understand the frustration with the Human changes. We had to remove water because it was just too powerful on some map types and it was screwing with all the economy balance. They also ended up having fewer changes than the other races because they kind of form the base line that other races are vary from. For better or worse, Humans are kind of boring by design.

    #165999

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Something I’ve noticed in my game (Windows version) after the beta patch got installed today:

    The resolution in my main menu is suddenly always the highest possible, which is 2715×1527. I always manually switch it back to 1920×1080, but once I leave the game and open it again, the main menu will be in 2715×1527 again. By far no disaster, just a little annoying over time.

    If you are having trouble with the patch, please report that in the Update v1.5 forum. That ensures the team will pick it up and allows us to ask for more details if needed.

    Great job Sikbok, now you can eat, and here are your 10000 of minerals and Bespin (oops) gas.

    Build ALL the carriers : D>

    And for all the people theory crafting. I’d love it if you’d all go and put theory into practice so you can tell us how that worked out in the Update v1.5. A lot of those changes work out quite differently then they look like on paper.

    #166001

    Bob5
    Member

    I still don’t quite understand yet what the racial relations actually do. When orcs like me it doesn’t seem to affect the morale of my orc units, or the city happiness of my orc cities at all. What is the main benefit of a race liking you (disregarding Racial Governance as that is expansion only)?

    #166015

    What is the main benefit of a race liking you (disregarding Racial Governance as that is expansion only)?

    Independent cities of a race that likes you will be more likely to offer peace/alliance and buying them out will be cheaper (or even free sometimes). You also get bonus happiness in your own cities and bonus morale for your units if the given race likes you.

    Combine Master Peacekeeper and Rogue Courtesan Ambassadors for rapid peaceful expansion.

    In addition,

    The City Betrayal Mechanic: If a city of an enemy empire is unhappy, it may offer to betray its owner to a suitable leader who is at war with the current owner. Of course that leader does need a positive happiness toward the race of the town in question. If the town can’t find such a player it might rebel and become independent. The city offers to betray its owner via a quest to the prospective new leader, asking him to send an army to City and relieve them of the vile despot. When the player attacks the city, the local population aids the player, opening the city gates and spawning militia units behind the walls. If the takeover is successful, the city joins without the need to absorb or any of the negative penalties of capturing a city by force.

    Again, combine this with Peacekeepr’s Rally the Populace and/or Rogue’s Incite Revolt.

    Good aligned Rogues have become really attractive, lemme tell ya. 🙂

    #166022

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Also, Race Happiness does affect Unit Morale and City Happiness, you just need at least +200 or -200 to see the effect.

    #166029

    Astraflame
    Member

    Inlfict stun manticore rider, i mean hello seriously? You gav the most OP sorc mechanic to a T4 warlord unit, like High Elf wasnt the best warlorf race already 😀 What

    #166037

    DadouXIII
    Member

    Also, I understand the frustration with the Human changes. We had to remove water because it was just too powerful on some map types and it was screwing with all the economy balance. They also ended up having fewer changes than the other races because they kind of form the base line that other races are vary from. For better or worse, Humans are kind of boring by design.

    I’m also quite saddened by the removal of humans liking water. I understand that it was too powerful on some maps, as water is not affected by climate or terrain changing events, but wouldn’t it have been possible to reduce the effect of bonus from liking water?
    Instead of just removing it completely, why not make liking water only give 50% (number subject to change) of happiness of liking any other terrain?

    I get that humans are the “base” race, but making them *too* bland just removes all the fun of playing them :/
    I mean it says right there at the top of the race patch notes that somes changes will provide fun at the expense of some balance :/

    #166048

    Astraflame
    Member

    I get that humans are the “base” race, but making them *too* bland just removes all the fun of playing them :/
    I mean it says right there at the top of the race patch notes that somes changes will provide fun at the expense of some balance :/

    You didn’t notice the buffs they received? I’ll give you that humans could be more versatilite with terrain than they currently are in the beta, something like Volcanic clime penalty could be removed entirely or at the very least moved to disliked. That +5 prod could easily be removed then.

    Artic was removed but i had more problems with Volcanic since it is hated type, the RMG was improved to help out the start of hostile terrain but human is pretty much bound to dreadnought(Surpess nature) or the RNG of creation adept(Cleanse the land)

    PS; I forget fire adept, domain spell but has a high maintenance cost for the avg lasting game.

    #166058

    Astraflame
    Member

    I’m also not sure on Shock Trooper and guard breaker, to me they were already the most OP T3 unit with a few medals just beaten by gryphon riders for their Flying, first strike and Tireless medal.

    #166063

    Astraflame
    Member

    Now they pretty much invincible, i think the situation Firstborn vs Shock Trooper is now reversed from the game at launch, Shock Troopers just have too much damn killing power especially since dungeons spawns here and there and orcs are not late to take advantage from that. IDK why dungeons seem to spawn alot more than Enchanted armory, maybe it’s just my luck.

    #166064

    I get that humans are the “base” race, but making them *too* bland just removes all the fun of playing them :/<br>
    I mean it says right there at the top of the race patch notes that somes changes will provide fun at the expense of some balance :/

    I don’t think they’re too bland or that they’re even all that bland in the first place and I’ve already listed all the buffs they got.

    @Astra

    Many other t3s also got buffs and the Tigran and Frostlings ones are really good too.

    #166070

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Shock Troopers have a lot of power, but they’re very vulnerable to non-physical damage. It’s very easy to kill them with support units, and they’re very vulnerable to things like Inflict Stun and Inflict Daze.

    #166078

    Buczer
    Member

    You didn’t notice the buffs they received?

    Thats the problem. You think more abouts buffs, nerfs and balance, and I think more about fun and utility. You think that humans are not bland? In my opinion they are – now. Just think, what are you thinking after capturing dwarf cities? Maybe something like “now i have better mobility in mountains and better vision underground”. Or goblin cities like “exelent, now I own swamps as well”. Or ork cities? “Cool, now my class units tank is stronger”.
    What will be your first thouth after capturing human cities beside “wow, another barack to spam cavalery” or “great, maybe i will have some priest after several turns”? Becouse certainly not “Oh, yeah, its time to clean water from those pesky pirates and monsters”.

    #166082

    Astraflame
    Member

    I disagree Tombles, Shock troopers are not that easy to kill by support. First they are tireless which means offensively use of Guard(Guard can’t break by exhausting action points) for 20% increased resistance. Secondly they got the highest hp and scales as any T3 ending up at 100 hp, that is not easy to kill by support especially when they get +1(10) resistance by third rank and can be boosted by cheap spells(Bless, Touch of faith etc) It’s a concern since this unit levels up incredible quick with it’s awesome killing power.

    I’d say they were one of the best T3s but within balance, now with guard breaker i think the balance is broken.

    #166089

    What will be your first thought after capturing human cities…

    – Tough archers that get good damage and utility vs. undead if they reach gold.

    – Pikes with overwhelm that are great vs. other pikes and can get +8 dmg vs shielded cav like Knights or Dwarven Manticores.

    – Priests that heal/buff and hard counter undead (awesome vs. boneyards and tombs).

    – Tough cavalry with a highly damaging charge

    – Units with no embarking penalties that can much more easily clear water sites.

    – A Siege Workshop’s worth of extra production.

    – And yes, evolving cav.

    #166091

    Astraflame
    Member

    I’ll add that anyone would be wise to put them in a hero group giving +1 resistance, their 9 res can be worked around and mitigated somewhat but their massive killing power(With guard breaker) will never be reachable by other T3s no matter how hard they try. Relentless army fristborns? Nop not even close etc.

    #166097

    DadouXIII
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>DadouXIII wrote:</div>
    I get that humans are the “base” race, but making them *too* bland just removes all the fun of playing them :/<br><br>
    I mean it says right there at the top of the race patch notes that somes changes will provide fun at the expense of some balance :/

    I don’t think they’re too bland or that they’re even all that bland in the first place and I’ve already listed all the buffs they got.

    I’m not arguing about buffs, I’m arguing about flavour.
    I really enjoyed the “water” theme the humans had going for them.

    #166100

    Buczer
    Member

    – Tough archers that get good damage and utility vs. undead if they reach gold.
    – Pikes with overwhelm that are great vs. other pikes and can get +8 dmg vs shielded cav like Knights or Dwarven Manticores.
    – Priests that heal/buff and hard counter kill undead (awesome vs. boneyards and tombs).
    – Tough cavalry with a highly damaging charge
    – Units with no embarking penalties that can much more easily clear water sites.
    – A Siege Workshop’s worth of a free production bonus.
    – And yes, evolving cav.

    Those pikes are good, but how exacly interesting in comparison to any racial pikes who counter cavalery anyway? Mariner was close to useless before water patch imho, was than better to use flyers and floaters. Archers are nothing special, really. Just good archery unit. Overall, humans units are not UP (with the sole exeption of longsword, wich sucks). It’s just humans without water bias are boring overall and adds nothing that other races could not get anyway.
    Maybe that siege workshop will be much interesting at last.

    #166109

    Comments from an AD perspective:

    Brilliant
    -Insect Plague upgrade makes indirect warfare a real interesting prospect 🙂
    -Henge and Megalith are actually worth building. Plus the extra mana will surely come in handy with the new changes
    -Orc Hunters. Glorified spearmen they may be, but combined with druid haste I feel this will be one unit to watch out for. Exactly what this race-class combo needed; bravo to the guy who suggested this

    Good
    -The much maligned Favored Enemy upgrade is finally dealt with
    -Animistic Knowledge is handled well
    -Ancestral Spirit is what it should’ve been from the beginning
    -Spider Wall-climbing upgrade is a nice little surprise.

    Neutral
    -Call Beast Horde got a huge surge in power (rejoice peasants!), but I still really, really hate seeing T1 spiders in my ultimate spell.
    -Not impressed by the Shaman’s Awaken Spirit ability, but it’s better than nothing. This is mostly because I find the best use of the Shaman is with mixed Hunter stacks to raid and harass, capitalizing on their 40mp and concealment. Mixing them with animals is just a tad too slow and sacrifices concealment, thus making shaman-animal stacks, on the whole, undesirable. Would’ve really liked it if all Shamans have the transform ability…

    Bad
    -Poison Domain changes mean one of the more potent weapons in the AD arsenal against machines is removed completely (and without compensation). This makes sense since as machines they should be immune, but it does mean the druid has no useful city defense spell against Dreads, since Thorn Hedge Walls are useless vs them as well.

    Missing (imo)
    -Hunter Spider Queens really need a hp boost. 52 hp is pathetic for a T3 unit and they die way too easily in auto combat.

    Overall
    The main grievances of the class have been well and truly dealt with, and for that I am grateful. Some, like the Shaman and Beast Horde changes, are not what I had in mind but I suppose others might find them adequate.

    #166111

    I really enjoyed the “water” theme the humans had going for them.

    They still have it, I’ve listed that too. They also have a slight theocratic theme now.

    Those pikes are good, but how exacly interesting in comparison to any racial pikes who counter cavalery anyway?

    I already said it in my post. It’s the overwhelm which gives them a bonus vs. units that pikes aren’t normally a counter to and how it combines into an even bigger bonus vs. units that are both cav and have shields. No other pikeman has this.

    Mariner was close to useless before water patch imho, was than better to use flyers and floaters.

    Humans don’t have any fliers or floaters. Your class might provide you with some or it might not. If it does they usually come much later.

    Archers are nothing special, really. Just good archery unit.

    Except for the dwarven xbowman the human archer is the toughest t1 archer unit in the game. The xbowman only has +1 res over it and they have equal defense despite the xbowman’s dwarven def bonus.

    At gold level the human archer gets +2 ranged spirit dmg on top of all the normal rank dmg bonuses so it even outdamages the elven longbowman (14 vs. 13) although the longbow would generally perform better due to no range penalty.

    The spirit dmg also makes it uniquely suited to killing undead which are normally resistant to physical ranged damage.

    #166112

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Good call on the Hunter spiders, it is indeed too low. I’ll up it to 60.

    #166113

    Astraflame
    Member

    Shock Troopers have a lot of power, but they’re very vulnerable to non-physical damage.

    Yep but the power is no longer proportional to their res malus, it’s too much now. Guard breaker(Breaks defender all the time, right?) Is easily their second most powerful ability now after Tireless. Was this necessary ? I understand the Knight got a stronger charge, the unit was lacking a bit, but Shock Troopers do not lack anything like Gryphons it’s a beast in the none patch version.

    I feel you gave this unit this since you thought it couldn’t have the new warcry ability(To compensate) but IMO ask yourselves if this unit needed anything to begin with, i’ve always considered it the melee monster and with a little support able to take out 2-3 of the other races T3s(In case of knight’s it’s true, this thing eats knights alive with some medals)

    Heck i’d prefer you gave the Firstborn their old damage back 15/3 rather than this, it is silly.

    PS. It would make a little more sense if Guard breaker was their new Gold medal(Since killing momentum can be had with dungeon, i wouldn’t support it but at least it’ll make more sense.

    #166125

    Buczer
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>DadouXIII wrote:</div>
    I really enjoyed the “water” theme the humans had going for them.

    They still have it, I’ve listed that too. They also have a slight theocratic theme now.

    Actually, they dont. They are no longer water powerhouse, wich is good for balance reasons and bad for flavour reasons. And you dont have to tell me what are the tactical properties of human units, i know them well. Still I see halabardier as just a regular pikeman that perform a little better against other pikes and shielded infantry than other pike infantry AND archer as a regular, good archer. Hell, knjghts are great unit of its own, and its still just a regular, extremely powerful cavalery. Truelly unique is only priest that can render humans imune to spirit atacks BTW and assasin, wich is lightning bruiser of human race.
    But maybe when human cities will be better with producing trebushets, i will be convinced that human lost nothing in uniqueness.

    #166126

    Motasa
    Member

    Overall, nice tweaks to the existing races, classes and overall game. I sincerely hope they will be on par (both balance wise and uniqueness) with the races and class added by Eternal Lords. But what about the bonuses that were mentioned a while ago for the Dwarf and Orc races (decreased cost of respectively Siege Workshop and Barracks)?

    I really dislike the Halfling cavalry unit now having more health than the cavalry of other races. If they needed some buff, I would have liked something other than more hp to make them more viable (increased Defence, First Strike (since they have spears), Projectile Resistance or something other to offset their physical weakness). It feels very off that they are now the toughest cavalry unit; not to mention when a Brew Brother throws a Nourishing Meal onto that for a whopping 80 hp!

    A High Elf Manticore rider with stunning… sounds too good to me. Wouldn’t Inflict Shocking be better, balance wise?

    Hope with the shift of Summon Lesser Elemental to a higher tier, it will be less of nuisance; I found them to be a too viable strategy, especially when it was a spell you started with. Does All specializations now have a starting skill mean some for Wild Adept Summon Lesser Elementals will not be a starting skill?

    #166127

    Good call on the Hunter spiders, it is indeed too low. I’ll up it to 60.

    Oh wow, excellent response time. Thank you good sir 🙂

    #166137

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Yep but the power is no longer proportional to their res malus, it’s too much now. Guard breaker(Breaks defender all the time, right?) Is easily their second most powerful ability now after Tireless. Was this necessary ? I understand the Knight got a stronger charge, the unit was lacking a bit, but Shock Troopers do not lack anything like Gryphons it’s a beast in the none patch version.

    Perhaps you should make a post in the balance subforum and collect other people’s opinions on this? Believe it or not, you’re one of the first people to complain about it AFAIK, I’m not sure beta testers mentioned it at all. I’m not saying I disagree with you that the ST is a strong, or even the strongest racial T3, but I’d like other people to give a yay/nay before I actually start making any changes to it.

    A High Elf Manticore rider with stunning… sounds too good to me. Wouldn’t Inflict Shocking be better, balance wise?

    Inflict Stun isn’t that useful against higher tier units, unless you can get in lots of hits (by using ranged attacks, for example) since the proc chance is so low. It’s most useful against T1/T2 units, which are most likely going to die when a manticore rider attacks them anyways. Obviously, occasionally a lucky stun will kill a powerful unit, but I don’t think it’s liekly enough to actually be that overpowered.

    #166139

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Does All specializations now have a starting skill mean some for Wild Adept Summon Lesser Elementals will not be a starting skill?

    Summon Lesser Elemental will never be a starting skill. The starting skills refered to in the patch notes are passive bonuses you get for choosing a specialization. Wild Magic users get bonus casting points from Heart structures, I believe.

    #166140

    Socratatus
    Member

    Your basic bug isn’t too smart, but you can blow off a limb… [shoots an bug’s limb off] and it’s still 86 percent combat effective. Here’s a tip: Aim for the nerve stem, and put it down for good.

    Where’s the button for:I would like to know more? 😉

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