Update v1.5 Patch Notes – UPDATED 7/4/2015

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Update v1.5 Patch Notes – UPDATED 7/4/2015

This topic contains 439 replies, has 112 voices, and was last updated by  Weltenreiter 7 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 211 through 240 (of 440 total)
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  • #169074

    terrahero
    Member

    Seems reasonable.

    I have to wonder if Orc tier1 units aren’t just to good right now. They get the bonus from their race, being the Victory rush, +5hp, +1melee, Night Vision. And the Greatsword, Spearman and Impaler get the War Cry ability.

    But they don’t all get the drawbacks. -1range doesnt affect Greatsword and Impaler, and they also don’t get the -1resistance cause it was considered to punishing.

    Now that they’ve gotten some love since in the form of War Cry and Victory Rush perhaps reconsider if giving them their racial resistance penalty is now reasonable.
    Greatswords can push out 48damage with War Cry in a single turn. Not counting the effects from Overwhelm, which can land it upwards to 57dmg per turn again Pikeman and Shield users.
    I don’t think there is a single tier1 racial unit, besides another Orc, that isnt at risk of dying in a single turn from full health.

    #169085

    Astraflame
    Member

    Greatsword is the best infantry indeed, this group (T1) infantry is however lackluster , pikemen steal their garrison spot later on and T1 archer is generally the most effective and best scaling T1 group. I’d say the Greatsword is fine until T1 infantry recieves some proper late game scaling ( unless you’re a Theocrat)

    #169102

    Hunter
    Member

    Good changes.

    Not sure the hero recruitment is working perfectly just yet. It seems like sometimes you can ask for a different kind of hero, and sometimes you can’t. And sometimes you just don’t want any hero, but that isn’t an option.

    #169149

    Many people felt that going underground without playing Goblins or Dwarves was dull and boring, to the degree where many people switch the layer off because it’s just no fun. In the longer term, we want to look at how the RMG creates underground layers, but this shoudl certainly help in the interim.

    It makes me happy that you try to make the underground more interesting!

    Vassals now give a choice between 2 of gold, units or mana, instead of just free units when they offer a tribute.

    Nice.

    #169155

    Bob5
    Member

    Skewers are still in the game somehow, I saw one guarding a treasure site

    Attachments:
    #169158

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Yeah, that’s deliberate. When we announced the Butcher people asked if the Skewer could stick around, so we left him in as an occasional structure defender.

    #169162

    Bob5
    Member

    Yeah, that’s deliberate. When we announced the Butcher people asked if the Skewer could stick around, so we left him in as an occasional structure defender.

    You sneaked that joke right in lol.

    I guess I took the wording “The skewer is no more” a bit too literally

    #169174

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    I didn’t even realise I’d made it myself xD

    #169213

    Ericridge
    Member

    Civic Guards get first strike on elite medal now? I like that, I think you guys chose best possible medal for civic guard.

    And it looks like I will not produce dwarf miners for just clearing the diggable walls anymore. Seems like I can try to use them to rush few wooden outposts early in the game. Although there is battering ram. xD

    The nerf to vassal quests and tributes is what makes me sad the most in this update. I liked collecting voluntary tributes and then training them onto quests that pop up, it gave me alot of practice with army formations that I never fielded before. And once they gained some experience to be trooper at minimum, I consider bringing them onto part of my attack force or start clearing nodes with them. I personally thought the previous rate was quite fine but it seems like I was the only person that thought that way.

    And I got a question, what happens to current games in progress? Is the saves still okay or gotta purge them? Cuz I’m about to invade an huge Goblin rogue empire. Never seen a runaway goblin rogue before, they usually get eliminated.

    #169216

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Many people felt that going underground without playing Goblins or Dwarves was dull and boring, to the degree where many people switch the layer off because it’s just no fun. In the longer term, we want to look at how the RMG creates underground layers, but this shoudl certainly help in the interim.

    Is not the simpler – and better solution – to give more races both Dark Vision and Cave Crawling? Orcs and Draconians already have one, so they’d just need Cave Crawling. And doing so would fit their themes as well. You can also consider Halfings as under-ground dwellers, because that’s what they do in some fantasy universes.

    I don’t see why this option is not explored.

    As is, the underground changes are even worse than pre-beta (one of the few beta changes that made things worse, as the beta patch has, as usual, made the game so much better). In fact, in many games the overland map is so congested that you are almost forced to play large or extra large maps, even if you want a quicker game.

    #169228

    Gloweye
    Member

    Yeah, that’s deliberate. When we announced the Butcher people asked if the Skewer could stick around, so we left him in as an occasional structure defender.

    I still wander….can’t you just put them as a bonus unit from the Barracks? Goblins would have 1 unit over the other races, but IMO not overly so. They’re still there to swarm, but if you really wanted pikes and got 3 turns to spare you’d build a War Hall first for the Butchers.

    And I got a question, what happens to current games in progress? Is the saves still okay or gotta purge them? Cuz I’m about to invade an huge Goblin rogue empire. Never seen a runaway goblin rogue before, they usually get eliminated.

    Depends on the change. Changes to units/spells/abilities are retroactive, so your Elite Civic Guards will suddenly have First Strike. Many other changes won’t.

    And restarting games is the fate of a beta-tester…

    Is not the simpler – and better solution – to give more races both Dark Vision and Cave Crawling? Orcs and Draconians already have one, so they’d just need Cave Crawling. And doing so would fit their themes as well. You can also consider Halfings as under-ground dwellers, because that’s what they do in some fantasy universes.

    This would also make the races look more like each other(Also, Drac’s have neither now, but they don’t dislike UG). The similarity is something I’m against.

    #169245

    Epaminondas
    Member

    This would also make the races look more like each other(Also, Drac’s have neither now, but they don’t dislike UG). The similarity is something I’m against.

    I like diversity, too, but diversity is not always better. In this case, I would prefer races become slightly more uniform so we can utilize underground better – or at all (given that right now a majority of my random map games seem to close off underground altogether). Keep in mind that we are talking about giving 2 more races underground capabilities – not giving it to every race. We have 2 fully under-ground capable races now, and I am proposing upping that to 4 – out of 9 races. This is a small price to pay in terms of reducing racial diversity to gain essentially the capacity to utilize half the map.

    #169257

    Weltenreiter
    Member

    Nice sounding changes to Vassalage and Underworld.

    I take it underground roads are pointless for Cave Crawlers? (Arctic Walking and roads didn’t stack either afaik and its kind of same situation)

    #169267

    alf978
    Member

    19th March 2015, version 1.533

  • War Cry now has a cooldown of 3 turns (was once per battle)
  • @tombles,

    I thought I remember you mentioning in one of the subforums that Drawves would get defensive strike on a 3 turn cooldown as well if you’ll give it to war cry? (No love for the bearded folk?) 😉

    Regarding War Cry, it’s rather viscous, especially in conjunction with Shocktroopers’ Break Guard ability; I attacked a Trading Post protected by all orc units.

    Shocktrooper came in broke guard on my T3, then spearmen sprinted in to flank (w/ war cry active, because if you get a knife in your back, you might as well twist it.. LOL), and all of a sudden every single orc unit in reach activated their war cry ability to compound flanking after flanking attack. And that was the AI on un-leveled units.

    I loath to see what a skilled human player can pull off, with Hero upgrades.
    It’s a rather potent ability if you ask me…

    And it turns already THE best racial irregular in the game, orc spearmen, into miniature assassins. Not because of war cry alone, but also because they have innate sprint. — that’s a bit of an extrapolation, but i’m sure you guys get my point…
    (It seems kinda like rewarding the rich for getting richer in this particular case) :-/

    #169304

    Athei
    Member

    Bug or not: Enemy unit passing trough my territory is giving me “Domain Invasion at ****” for every hex traveled in there.

    #169307

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Bug or not: Enemy unit passing trough my territory is giving me “Domain Invasion at ****” for every hex traveled in there.

    I don’t think that’s a bug.

    #169318

    Athei
    Member

    Athei wrote:

    Bug or not: Enemy unit passing trough my territory is giving me “Domain Invasion at ****” for every hex traveled in there.

    I don’t think that’s a bug.

    It was not working like that before, and I missed it somehow while reading patch notes.

    I’m not sure you understood me correctly – when a single stack of enemy units passes trough my domain I get one domain invasion event for every hex it traveled trough while passing trough it…

    So a single random indie decided to pass trough my domain and I get 6 domain invasion notices for that? What if 3-4 enemies decide to take a stroll trough my domain, will I get 20 different events just for that? Why should I care what route they took while passing, I’m only interested in knowing whether they are still in my domain or not, and a single event is sufficient for that…

    #169322

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    Bug or not: Enemy unit passing trough my territory is giving me “Domain Invasion at ****” for every hex traveled in there.

    I *think* that’s only the case if there’s an invisible unit in the stack and you can spot it with True Sight, in which case you discover it again on every hex?

    #169334

    Athei
    Member

    Hmmm, nope found what it was: a corrupted savegame.

    Or at least I think it was. Because funny thing is… there is no savegame anymore (nor the custom leader I created which I was playing in that game, but that has nothing to do with this… right?), and I was only able to load autosave that was on steam cloud or something like that, but when I started a new game to see if it was indeed savegame issue, I lost that savegame as well so now I cannot go back to it 🙂

    P.S. The newly started game doesn’t appear to have that particular bug, so it must have been only something on my end…

    #169336

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    Oh weird, I had that too, didn’t play yet since they updated today though…

    #169366

    chronobomb
    Member

    Many people felt that going underground without playing Goblins or Dwarves was dull and boring, to the degree where many people switch the layer off because it’s just no fun. In the longer term, we want to look at how the RMG creates underground layers, but this shoudl certainly help in the interim.

    I think the largest issue with underground is there is no reason to go. The best stuff is on the surface and visually very boring while doubling the size of the map.

    It would be nice if caves would be smaller had more powerful spawns that did not leave underground lairs and had rewards to match. Plus maybe super rare sites, that can upgrade units, that only appear underground. Mithril?

    Blight is good because it can be debuffed by Goblins and fits with them themati
    In early game is the same, only Tigrans are protected from Spirit but Draconians are protected from Fire.<br>
    The difference is that spirit instead of fire is a better against undead while the other is better against machines. You get tons of units with shock attack to deal with machines but no much against undead.<br>
    Expecially against ghoul right now you may deal shock (regular damage – 40% weakness if shocked), spirit (60% weakness) and blight (no damage – 40% procected if you apply the debuff)….so with the debuff the goblin apprentice would be better than the other apprentices against ghouls, without would be worse but no by much. Also non skeletal undead (wraiths for example) don’t have the 20% fire weakness.<br>
    Only problem is against the T4: Horned God immune to both spirit and shock would be hit by blight only, Shrine immune to spirit and blight, Eldritch Horros immune to blight and very protected against spirit. And golden dragon would be always a problem in both cases.<br>
    Shock/Blight/Fire is better only in standard game but I have the feeling that spirit instead of fire would be better in the expansion.

    The biggest problem with spirit is 3 issues:
    1. Late game so many units become immune to it and the sorcerer has no way to deal with their 100% immunities.
    2. Thematically it does not fit. Where do priests and devout fit int the sorcerer line-up.
    3. Undead is just one class. Theocrats, Dreadnoughts, and Archdruids, Sorcerers, Warlords are 5 with high spirit resists. Plus it’s hinted necromaners can somehow counter this weakness.

    Spirit resist creatures You missed:
    ALL heroes gain strong will 100%
    Ancestral spirits 100%
    Horned God 100%
    Any unit with wild hunt active 100%
    Any unit with spirit of the land 40%
    Spy drone 100%
    Golem 100%
    Cannon 100%
    Flame tank 100%
    Juggernaut 100%
    Ironclad 100%
    Any one who gets Iron Heart buff 100%
    Cherub 60%
    Crusader 100%
    Exalted 100%
    Shrine of smiting 100%
    Anyone buffed by Armageddon 100%
    Anyone under hallowed domain 60%
    Anyone buffed by blood brothers 100%
    Watcher 100%
    Eldridge horror 100%
    Anyone buffed by spirit shield 40%
    Human priest 60% plus buff 100% other units

    #169390

    Weltenreiter
    Member

    Race info for Human in city screen (fourth tab) still lists 5 production and Water liking. (edit: and Arctic dislike)

    #169430

    alf978
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tombles wrote:</div>
    19th March 2015, version 1.533

  • War Cry now has a cooldown of 3 turns (was once per battle)
  • @tombles,

    I thought I remember you mentioning in one of the subforums that Dwarves would get defensive strike on a 3 turn cooldown as well if you’ll give it to war cry? (No love for the bearded folk?) ;)

    Never mind, I just got to check it out in game, and they did get it on a cooldown as well.
    It just didn’t seem to be listed among the patch update notes.
    T.y.!! 🙂

    #169465

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Yeah, I checked and Defensive Strike was already on a 2 turn cooldown, I didn’t think you wanted me to nerf it 🙂

    For the domain invasion spam, there’s a note here from one of my colleagues “Decreased domain invasion event spam”, so I think it’s fixed next update… He’s not here right now, so I can’t ask him.

    Underground roads are indeed useless for cave crawlers, until you get advanced logistics.

    If you guys feel Vassals give too little now, we can turn it up. Before it was totally out of control, but we may have overnerfed it.

    Finally, with the Underground, sorry that some people don’t like it. The idea was to change it so that rather than non -UG races getting penalized, that UG races had a bonus. We reasonably can’t have more than 2 or 3 races with cave crawling/night vision, and that leaves 2/3ds who need to at least be fun to play UG.

    #169477

    Alenrodaer32
    Member

    Hello,
    I love the changes that you bring. Previously Transferred burden of playing such a neutral city. Fairies and giants. Now write what else I want.

    – The addition of the entire sound mute options. – I like music but I often use voice chat to talk to friends and move the sliders manually is annoying.

    – Place the tasks and chervil in a hard line – For larger country messages disappear from our vassals. It’s hard to be seen among other messages. I would prefer to be in a hard line that is the same as the movement of the army or the offer of a new hero. That showed that we still share related to them.
    After yesterday’s update I missed a couple of tribute, because I did not choose between gold and mana.

    – Vassal hold weak garrisons, this does not improve the buildings. – I like to reduce the amount of awards and the emergence of new frequencies to ask from them. But without my help, they are unable to defend themselves, to not put new buildings. So even as they took over, I had to grow up almost from scratch. Could be to put up a building every few turns.

    As to the underworld.
    I often play goblins but I set just more wetlands and dense vegetation, since in these settings often appeared to me neutral city Fairies and The Naked (lizards).
    Underworld are ugly, empty and boring. Have a poor structures: picks and winding corridors do not like this is hard to move them.
    You have to put a lot of work to make this work smoothly element began: Change the structures more caverns or caves dużuch individual and that you can only come to the surface (it looks like the last map in the campaign halflings). Spice graphic design more styles? for example might be wet, dry, or cold magic. Add special underground treasure of structure, habitat beings that went to the surface and attack the player. More races major fighting in the caves, because at the moment there are only goblins and dwarves. Archons relegated to the basement? Or a new city the most frequently occurring neutral on the lower level?
    Anything that forced the player to test the underworld.

    #169547

    Alenrodaer32
    Member

    I develop the diversity of this area in the basement.
    I mean the introduction of new types or a clear distinction between the existing ones, where it is more work for the future.

    – Caves partially flooded. There were there to fish-land and drowners.
    – Caves dead, or bare ground.
    – Caves alive, that some small plants.
    – Caves with a magical source of light, colorful.
    – An oasis of green with fairies or elves city. The effect of light that enters through the cracks in the ceiling of the cave.
    Important for the formation of this interesting compositions.

    For this aggressive creatures coming to the surface and unique dungeons and treasures.

    #169566

    NickV
    Moderator

    Domain invasion event behavior got changed yeah. Now only one event is spawn for each domain, regardless of how many enemy stacks pass trough it. It’s up to you to determine who is invading at which hex. 🙂

    #169632

    greyclouds
    Member

    Underground roads are indeed useless for cave crawlers, until you get advanced logistics.

    I’m ok with this. The benefit of being a dwarf or goblin is that you act as if you’re on a road throughout the underground. Far better than the former situation, where if you were non-goblin/non-dwarf the underground was like running through mountains/swamps!

    If you guys feel Vassals give too little now, we can turn it up. Before it was totally out of control, but we may have overnerfed it.

    I think that maybe just a slight increase might be needed. Still, I think that they were far too generous before, so I agree with the reduction.

    Finally, with the Underground, sorry that some people don’t like it. The idea was to change it so that rather than non -UG races getting penalized, that UG races had a bonus. We reasonably can’t have more than 2 or 3 races with cave crawling/night vision, and that leaves 2/3ds who need to at least be fun to play UG.

    I actually think that your changes are a step in the right direction. The benefits for dwarves/goblins are not quite so overpowered, and it means that other races can enter the underground as well. I would highly recommend removing any racial “hates underground” characteristic if it still exists.

    I think that you might be misinterpreting why we don’t like the underground though, and another poster has given a very good reason why few people enter it: There are no real benefits to settling the underground as contrasted to the overworld.

    If there were solid, tangible benefits for settling the underground, then I think that you give the location a sense of purpose beyond just being a doubling of the map size.

    Here are some ideas that I can think of that would provide tangible, but not overpowered benefits to living in the underground:

    • Increase the benefit of resource structures: Mines in the underground provide an additional +5 gold for being closer to the source of the ore
    • Restrict some dwellings to be “underground-only”: Now, dragon and undead dwellings only spawn in the underground
    • Restrict some resource structures to be “underground-only”: Tombs and Lost cities can only spawn in the underground
    • Increase the reward for clearing resource structures and treasure sites in the underground: This will encourage more exploration, I feel.

    Just a few of these economic changes, along with the removal of the HUGE advantage that the goblins and dwarves had in terms of movement over other races, would make exploring the underground far more fun.

    #169646

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Finally, with the Underground, sorry that some people don’t like it. The idea was to change it so that rather than non -UG races getting penalized, that UG races had a bonus. We reasonably can’t have more than 2 or 3 races with cave crawling/night vision, and that leaves 2/3ds who need to at least be fun to play UG.

    Why not, may I ask? Is it a lore issue or balance issue? I don’t see any reason why adding more would compromise either.

    #169666

    madmac
    Member

    If you guys feel Vassals give too little now, we can turn it up. Before it was totally out of control, but we may have overnerfed it.

    Should probably be turned up a bit, yeah.

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