Update v1.51 Patch Notes – UPDATED 24/4/2015

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Update v1.51 Patch Notes – UPDATED 24/4/2015

This topic contains 244 replies, has 51 voices, and was last updated by  Narvek 5 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 211 through 240 (of 245 total)
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  • #188527

    Zaskow
    Member

    I thought about changing Dwarf Econ 2 as well (currently 3g per gold mine) but I wasn’t sure if it needed it, there are a LOT of gold mines in the game, after all.

    What about buffing Dwarf Eco1 somehow for players who prefers map without underground?

    #188528

    Well, I tried banning ghouling of Angels and everyone went nuts. First I added an exception for the fallen one, then I had to add one for the Chthonic, and I’ve had people ask for ghouled archangels as well.

    There’s two issues at work here.

    One is what can be ghouled and to be frank I personally prefer that category to be as broad as possible, including dragons, magical beings and angels of all stripes. Having this big necro feature and then everything interesting is immune to it is a bit of a buzzkill.

    The second is how something can become a ghoul, and the issue with the fallen angel here is that Lich Aura ghoulifies anyone in the hero stacks, which while convenient, makes it impossible to have unghoulified Fallen Angels with your leader and as such gives them the big glaring weak spot.

    I am not sure if it is possible to build an exception into the Lich Aura, instead of giving blanket ghoul immunity but that could be the better approach.
    Similarly how in the current version dragons can be ghoulified by Age of Death and an inflicted ghoul curse but not via Lich Aura or the well.
    Ghouling is a strategic choice for Necros before they research Harbingers of Death, allowing them to choose less improved living mercenaries to mitigate blanket weaknesses. Afterwards that choice is removed and in some cases like Fallen Angels the weaknesses are glaring. 100% spirit weakness when the enemy is already encouraged to bring lots of spirit damage is brutal.

    Hmm.. I’ll make a thread in discussions about the degrees and maybe there are some new ideas coming from it.

    #188661

    Sharpnessism
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tombles wrote:</div>
    I thought about changing Dwarf Econ 2 as well (currently 3g per gold mine) but I wasn’t sure if it needed it, there are a LOT of gold mines in the game, after all.

    What about buffing Dwarf Eco1 somehow for players who prefers map without underground?

    The game is already very different for Dwarf if you play without underground (no extra gold from digging). I think by default it should be turned on and right now eco 1 for dwarf is fine as it is.

    #188686

    Zaskow
    Member

    The game is already very different for Dwarf if you play without underground

    Bonus source of free gold can’t make game very different.
    This upgrade could be easily buffed. Just add “Tree crusher” to dwarf unit Prospector.

    #188696

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    The game is already very different for Dwarf if you play without underground (no extra gold from digging). I think by default it should be turned on and right now eco 1 for dwarf is fine as it is.

    Not to jump all over this but I don’t like this concept of balancing only for what people consider default.

    As someone who doesn’t play default MP settings that the game is being balanced for I’m tired of things being changed only to suit those conditions regardless of the impact on other modes of play.

    I suspect if someone took the time to do a proper survey they’d find the default settings enjoyed by MP play actually represent a minority of users.

    #188717

    Mythabril
    Member

    For Dwarf Economic I, how about making it add 10-25 population growth for every cave wall or mountain hex within the city radius (those 6 hexes). It represents the dwarves putting focus on digging those out for much more housing space than setting up normal buildings.

    #188733

    Zaskow
    Member

    For Dwarf Economic I, how about making it add 10-25 population growth for every cave wall or mountain hex within the city radius (those 6 hexes).

    Or at least this…

    #188735

    bagas12
    Member

    How about dwarf Econ 2 give prospector a ability that if you park one prospector at a gold mine he generates 6 gold (4 for maintenance and 1 extra gold or 2 if its to low), for up to 6 prospector at each gold mine you could generates extra 6 gold without paying maintenance to this 6 units, the downside (or balance) is, you need to set up your mines with prospectors wasting production before you are getting the money.

    #188791

    Sharpnessism
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Sharpnessism wrote:</div>
    The game is already very different for Dwarf if you play without underground (no extra gold from digging). I think by default it should be turned on and right now eco 1 for dwarf is fine as it is.

    Not to jump all over this but I don’t like this concept of balancing only for what people consider default.

    As someone who doesn’t play default MP settings that the game is being balanced for I’m tired of things being changed only to suit those conditions regardless of the impact on other modes of play.

    I suspect if someone took the time to do a proper survey they’d find the default settings enjoyed by MP play actually represent a minority of users.

    So what should they balance for? Should they balance for people that like to play with 0 heroes? Or balance for people like to play with max resources max treasures?

    I play SP mostly as well but it only makes sense to balance for MP in default settings, regardless of how many players there are. Any imbalance is felt 10x in multiplayer because AI is limited in its playstyle.

    Of course it is best if everyone’s concerns can be addressed/accommodated (usually possible) but my point is that there should be 1 primary focus.

    #188837

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    So what should they balance for? Should they balance for people that like to play with 0 heroes? Or balance for people like to play with max resources max treasures?

    That’s a bit of a straw man argument. No one suggested balancing for the extremes. The reason sliders exist is to customize things the way they like them. Same reason as mod tools (hopefully soon!) will exist.

    Balance is important to MP games more than SP I grant. All I meant to urge is caution against statements like “Underground is the default.” “Auto combat is the default.” “Medium maps are the default.” “Standard starts are the default.” If there has to be a focus and there’s no way to include other modes in the balance then sure I agree make it the most popular mode (whatever that may be).

    #188958

    Sharpnessism
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Sharpnessism wrote:</div>
    So what should they balance for? Should they balance for people that like to play with 0 heroes? Or balance for people like to play with max resources max treasures?

    That’s a bit of a straw man argument. No one suggested balancing for the extremes. The reason sliders exist is to customize things the way they like them. Same reason as mod tools (hopefully soon!) will exist.

    There is no straw man, I am just asking you what they should balance for. My examples are meant to show that there are many ways of playing the game, none are incorrect per se (you should play in the way that grants you the most enjoyment) but there is definitely a certain vision that the devs have for the way the game is meant to be played. And accordingly, that is how they should balance the game.

    Balance is important to MP games more than SP I grant. All I meant to urge is caution against statements like “Underground is the default.” “Auto combat is the default.” “Medium maps are the default.” “Standard starts are the default.” If there has to be a focus and there’s no way to include other modes in the balance then sure I agree make it the most popular mode (whatever that may be).

    Fair enough.

    #189258

    Kozzie
    Member

    Found a Bug:

    Embrace by Darkness affects machines

    the desctiption of embrace of darkness:
    “bla bla bla except machine units” – my ram has dedicated to evil and life stealing , and it steals life upon hitting an enemy with its Ram attack. even my treb has it;)

    so either the description is wrong or its a bug.

    #189303

    esvath
    Member

    Is it possible to add a new option for the number of Dwellings in RMG, above “Many”?

    Maybe “Abundant” which gives at least 2 for each type, maybe with a 50% chance to get the 3rd one per each type?

    I’d love to play a “mystical” RMG map where the land is controlled by Giants, Dragons, Fey etc and I need to subjugate them 🙂

    #189335

    Weltenreiter
    Member

    Embrace Darkness, Spiritual Freedom and Scales Of Fortune now affect Machines and Boats

    From patch notes. Some informational text probably not updated yet.

    And yes, your ram is totes evil and blood drinking.

    #189592

    syntax_vi
    Member

    Several people in this thread have expressed concern over ghouled fallen angels, which, quite frankly, do seem pretty bad (unless i’m missing something). The synergy between necromancer and shadowborn is interesting but not always fluid. Now with ghouled fallen angels its not really a good combo. Can this unit be reworked so that ghouling isnt such a severe weakness?

    #189611

    Well, it isn’t that bad. You have a default -100%, but then protection from the light (or even another hero type’s spirit upgrade) makes that 80%, and then the shadowborn spirit protection bit makes it 60%. with the extra resistance point, being a ghoul is strong protection against most of the mind control counters.

    And you get the benefit of lots of despair to exploit or inflict with. It is true that the Archangel is superior for the undead, but I don’t really mind unorthodox combinations.

    #190192

    greyclouds
    Member

    This may be something to address in subsequent patches, but I just wanted to provide feedback to the Devs on Dreadnought heroes. After the excellent 1.5 patch release, I think that Dreadnought heroes were the only element of the game that were not given enough attention.

    Primary concerns:

    • Dreadnought heroes are less useful to other classes at low level
    • Dreadnought combat spells tend to be far too situational to be used by other classes
    • The level 10 Dreadnought hero abilities (tree crusher and bomb squad) are pretty underwhelming and overpriced

    Eji1700 made a good detailed post on Dreadnought hero abilities here.

    I brought up the issue with Dreadnought combat spells and some suggestions here.

    I’m just hoping that we can make Dreadnought heroes far more enticing to other classes. I mean, I get an archdruid hero offer, and I know that I have good options for planning his/her development. Sorcerers and Necromancers are great additions due to debuffs, whereas Warlords and Rogues make good melee damage dealers with great buffing spells. Theocrats are great buffers and healers as well. What do Dreadnought heroes bring to the table? Sadly, very little.

    #190205

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Seeing some recent posts on Dwarf Econ 1 in here, and after some testing I have to say that I’m surprised at the amount of flak it’s getting. It’s honestly probably way too strong right now.

    A single Prospector digging 4 tiles per turn can earn, after upkeep, approximately 42 gold per turn. In the early game in particular, when this first comes up, having, say, five Prospectors, can essentially increase your Gold income by 210 within a few turns of turn 7 or so when this upgrade is first acquired. 210 extra Gold Income is huge on turn 10.

    The loss of a little City Happiness is very well worth the tradeoff.

    Even on a Medium map, there will be a ton of available digging space that won’t compromise the security of your realm(if that’s a concern). On Large or Extra Large maps…

    Begrudgingly, I think it needs to be pared back. +4 per tile instead of +8, or something. That’s still going to be about an extra 26 per turn per Prospector, but it’s probably more fair. I don’t know what’s a good amount, ultimately. Sadly, the upgrade may be best reworked into something else, and also something that is independent of requiring the Underground to exist to actually be useful.

    #190432

    bagas12
    Member

    Problem is it is a finite resorce, you upgrade for a good bonus early, but it will end at some point and them you dont have a econ 1 anymore unlike the other racial bonus that stick good the entire game, plus, if you dont play large maps or underground it is even less money as the gold is exponentially better how much hexes is in the map, or you can make none at all as there is no dirty walls on the surface.

    #190509

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    28th April 2015, version 1.554

    • Trolls now have Wall Crushing
    • Sun Spear item is no longer Common
    • Reverted changes to Dark Ritual (now 40 mana, tier 2, 120 knowledge, affects own cities only)
    • AI will no longer be attacked by indies when building beacons.
    • AI will no longer declare war on players the moment they queue up their first beacon.
    • Fixed an issue where the tactical AI would never use any of the reanimate undead abilities
    • Fixed Cosmic Happening Crimson Star description & wrong polish string.
    • Avatar ‘Seek Inspiration’ Spell translated
    • Multiple small translation fixes

    This is probably the last update to the patch btw! Unless we find something that completely breaks the game, all further changes will have to wait for the next one!

    #190537

    NINJEW
    Member

    AI doesn’t get hit by indies period from beacons?

    Mannn

    #190579

    Mythabril
    Member

    AI doesn’t get hit by indies period from beacons?

    Mannn

    It’s a band aid until the AI is capable of dealing with it properly.

    #190603

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    It’s a band aid until the AI is capable of dealing with it properly.

    I’m afraid so. In my test games, the AI was literally killing itself by building beacons, and it’s just too late/dangerous to do anything proper about it. The alternative was stopping the AIs from building beacons completely!

    #190801

    flats
    Member

    Ogre flavor text says they can’t crush walls, but now they can. My immersion is ruined!

    #191003

    vota dc
    Member

    About stackable life stealing? Right now a shadowborn necromancer has less synergy.

    Ogre flavor text says they can’t crush walls, but now they can. My immersion is ruined!

    There are many discussions about that, they always could crush the walls despite the lore text since the release of the game, trolls are the guys that got wall crushing with the patch.

    #191219

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    New build with some minor bug fixes.

    #191258

    syntax_vi
    Member

    AI not having to defend unity beacons on XL maps (i play on slowest setting with max indies) seems pretty broken on anything above lord. They get the beacons pretty quick and seem to prioritize them.

    I’m in a situation where i’m negative -300 morale (soon to be higher) and still have not met any enemy AI’s playing on King difficulty (emperor is even worse).

    Perhaps these should scale based on map size? Other events might benifit from this treatment as well (ie rise of the liche king/ queen) where a stack with 4 units spawns which is pretty weak late game on an XL map. The non hero stacks of 4 are ok i guess.

    #191261

    Aameul
    Member

    Shadowborn necro is decent synergywise, Embrace Darkness for instance helps four races’ T3 units, and everyone’s Bone Collectors and Reapers. I still find the 100% Spirit Weakness Ghoul Fallen Angel annoying, but Reapers are always there.
    Grey Guard clashes with Necro much more, but that’s certainly by design.

    #191308

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    For Dwarf Economic I, how about making it add 10-25 population growth for every cave wall or mountain hex within the city radius (those 6 hexes). It represents the dwarves putting focus on digging those out for much more housing space than setting up normal buildings.

    Yes, this would make more sense. Right now it’s either too strong or just useless depending on your starting position and map settings. Though maybe such a population boost is a little too high…

    #191399

    zephyrcloud
    Member

    About stackable life stealing? Right now a shadowborn necromancer has less synergy.

    +1 to this, provided it doesn’t present a huge balance issue. Maybe two sources of life steal could return 4-8 health per attack, putting it somewhere between one copy of life steal and life drain?

    Also, has anyone else noticed the Necromancer AI not using Animate Ruins? I played a random map game in which I raised a Necromancer city that he proceeded to rebuild with a settler instead of using Animate Ruins, which seemed like a sub-optimal move.

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