War cry effectiveness

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Balance War cry effectiveness

This topic contains 19 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Kozzie 7 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
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  • #167052

    Zaskow
    Member

    What do you think new orc ability – War cry?
    I found it a bit underpowered. Seriously, +3 melee damage for 1 turn only once in battle? And compare it with dwarf defensive strike, which has multiple uses and make unit guarded.
    Suggestion:
    – greater melee bonus – +5 damage or so?
    – more time of action – 3-5 turns or until end of combat;
    – make cooldown timer – 3 turns.

    Thoughts?

    #167056

    Bob5
    Member

    I think it’s good. It just requires some finesse to find the timing to get the maximum out of it, and remember that Orcs already have some other damage boosters as well like Overwhelm that further amplify the damage. Orcs already have the best T1 infantry in the game in my opinion. With War Cry I’ve hit 30+ damage on single hits with Greatswords, as a Dreadnought. That’s on crits with Overwhelm but still, it’s T1 infantry that costs 50 gold, 45 gold with Great blacksmith. In early game clearing that’s pretty phenomenal. In later game it becomes easier to use in combination with Shock Troopers that disable guard mode so that your War Cry units can come in and deal massive damage (Black Knights do great with this to kill heroes with an additional Polearm boost).

    #167111

    vota dc
    Member

    But isn’t +9 damage in a turn if you manage to attack 3 times?

    #167119

    Thariorn
    Member

    But isn’t +9 damage in a turn if you manage to attack 3 times?

    It is. That’s quite strong, especially if you’re units have e.g. Killing Momentum, allowing them to distribte that extra dmg.
    It sure is a situational thing, but it’ll often save you behind from danger, because those 3/6/9 dmg allow you to finish off that one dangerous unit.

    #167511

    NuMetal
    Member

    Also keep in mind that there are only three Dwarf units with Defensive strike and like 7 Orc units with Warcry.

    I tihnk it’s fine the way it is.

    #167521

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    It’s weak on purpose, since we gave it to so many units as a flavour bonus. In principle, both it and defensive strike could be changed to 3 turn cooldowns, if people wnat them to be a little better?

    #167538

    Ravenholme
    Member

    I would probably support a 3 turn cooldown. Often that is effectively a once per battle thing, but means that it could be redeployed in the bigger fights (Multi-stack sieges etc)

    #167792

    quo
    Member

    3 turn cooldown would be an excellent improvement that would make Orcs stand out amid the competition. Once a battle is just a little on the weak side. Not useless, but not enough to make Orcs a priority, considering the downside of low Resistance and terrible ranged damage.

    #167809

    Gloweye
    Member

    Personally, I think both of them are in a fine place right now.

    #167818

    Zaskow
    Member

    Also keep in mind that there are only three Dwarf units

    4 units – axeman, crusader, phalanx and manticore.

    #167897

    ninninnin
    Member

    really? war cry is intended to be weak? i hope i dont get it nerfed by saying i love it, i can see being limited to one use per battle feeling annoying in a siege but you could say that about any once per battle ability. sieges are rough.
    its a bit odd that their archers and support dont have it too though, imagine how excited they must be to stop fighting like elves and take a swing at someone for once. at the very least it would make sense for orc monster hunters and hunters to get it since theyre not supposed to be shy about melee.

    im sad that defensive strike is only available on a single racial unit. i want to see more discussion about defensive strike. id like for it to be more widely available. i noticed it has a 3 turn cooldown today, i dont think it had a cooldown before, did it?

    #167916

    NuMetal
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>NuMetal wrote:</div>
    Also keep in mind that there are only three Dwarf units

    4 units – axeman, crusader, phalanx and manticore.

    I am quite convinced that the Phalanx does not have Defensive Strike since only Dwarf units with a shield got that ability.

    Ok, I checked and in http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/update-v1-5-patch-notes/ it’s said that the phalanx has it but the manticore doesn’t. So I suppose those notes are not up to date and you are right.
    But my point still stands. There are way more Orcs with Warcry than Dwarfs with defensive strike. Especially when you consider that the Dwarfs only have 1 not class unit with defensive strike and the Orcs 3 or 4.

    Personally, I think both of them are in a fine place right now.

    I agree.
    Especially the amazing Dwarfs definitely don’t need another buff!
    And the Orcs don’t really need to be buffed either. I feel like the people posting here are forgetting the incredibly amazing Victory Rush. Together with the addition of guards for pickups Orcs are among if not the best at clearing in the early game now.

    #167920

    Gloweye
    Member

    I am quite convinced that the Phalanx does not have Defensive Strike since only Dwarf units with a shield got that ability.

    Phalanx do have a Shield. Not so sure abotu manticores though, but I think they deserve it anyway.

    #167930

    Zaskow
    Member

    And the Orcs don’t really need to be buffed either. I feel like the people posting here are forgetting the incredibly amazing Victory Rush.

    Are you serious? Healing only 6 hits after victory for classes without healers is a kind of joke.

    #167945

    quo
    Member

    I think maybe this is all linked to a general need for more diversity among Infantry type units, particularly among the class units (Warlord and Theocrat units in particular).

    Speaking of, I know we’re not talking about them, but if there is any Class unit I’d like to see get a “flavor” ability it’s Goblin Exalted getting the Throw Filth ability. I can’t think of anything more hilarious or Goblin-like to do with your new pair of angel wings than to fly around throwing feces at people.

    #167949

    NuMetal
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>NuMetal wrote:</div>
    And the Orcs don’t really need to be buffed either. I feel like the people posting here are forgetting the incredibly amazing Victory Rush.

    Are you serious? Healing only 6 hits after victory for classes without healers is a kind of joke.

    6 HP for every victory for every unit in the army on top of the normal healing!
    Yeah, I am not joking. The ability is incredible…

    And as I have said in my last post it got even better with the addition of guards on pick ups. Now there are even more small and easy to defeat stacks all over the map -> even more battles per turn -> even more healing per turn, even more XP per turn -> Profit!

    With many small armies close to each other so that you can have multiple battles per turn nothing is as good as Orcs.

    And even if you have only one battle per turn that’s still healing 12 HP per turn for all units. So just as good as the fast regenerating Draconians.

    #168037

    quo
    Member

    Are you serious? Healing only 6 hits after victory for classes without healers is a kind of joke.

    6 HP for every victory for every unit in the army on top of the normal healing!<br>
    Yeah, I am not joking. The ability is incredible…

    I have to confess I don’t really see it. The Orcs in those battles are also taking damage, it’s not like they’re getting 6HP free and clear. I guess you could sideline some of the troops and only fight with others. However, whatever has to do the fighting is still taking damage. Orcs get +5HP but -1 Resist, which in the end against elemental attacks works out to taking quite a bit more damage than the larger HP pool covers. So, generally speaking, ping pong fighting like this will leave your army with less HP, not more.

    The exception might be an Orc Theocrat if they already have Order of Healing researched, since each battle resets the Heal timer. Or any other army with lots of Heal ability. But that’s not because of an ability like Victory Rush.

    #168145

    llfoso
    Member

    +6 HP isn’t huge, but it definitely makes a difference. There are lots of situations where one stack will fight two battles in a single round and victory rush makes that second battle just a bit more survivable.

    As to war cry, I think it’s fine the way it is…honestly orc melee units didn’t really need a buff in the first place 🙂 but 3-turn cooldown would be fine.

    #168214

    ninninnin
    Member

    huh? victory rush? i think its kind of a joke too but it never bothered me. just part of who orcs are. then again i couldnt stand playing orcs before war cry.
    what if that was made a regen buff with X duration on top of the heal? maybe 2 turns?

    #168265

    Kozzie
    Member

    the change is welcome – it adds flavor to orcs and gives another benefit to actually playing them – orcs are even less played than goblins in general mp.

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