What classes are Elves The Best at/Not The Best at

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions What classes are Elves The Best at/Not The Best at

This topic contains 32 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  ninninnin 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #198493

    NINJEW
    Member

    Elves are top tier Warlords, Druids, and Sorcerers. Someone will have to let me know if Elf Dreadnought is particularly good (thinking about it for a minute, it sounds pretty good), and how Elves work out with Rogue, Theocrat, and Necromancer

    The only one of these that sounds like a particularly poor class race combo is Elf Necromancer

    #198504

    Why are they top-tier sorcerers?

    The stun for support is redundant with their storm sisters, they double down on shock damage, and whilst having phasing cavalry and gryphons and whatnot is pretty neat, it’s hardly the only or even the best racial cavalry out there.

    On the plus side they get good long range attacks for their apprentices, eventually, and total awareness is pretty neat defensively, but neither of those things really seem -that- important in a sorcerer’s playstyle. I prefer Draconian sorcerers with fast healing and firebomb-apprentices AOE stunning, for example.

    Edit: they’re pretty good dreadnoughts, yeah. Shock damage is a neat bonus for dreads, and getting long-range musketeers is very helpful. But I still prefer humans. Or Goblins because of how cute their musketeers look. (Okay, not the best reasoning, that.)

    #198518

    zeelilus
    Member

    I never saw anything particularly strong about elven rogue. Bards get a long bow and succubi get total awareness. There’s plenty of options with other races that are just as good imo.

    Never tried elven theo, but once again I don’t see any reason why they’d be better than other races.

    #198520

    NINJEW
    Member

    Asked my buddy and here’s the answer I got

    +1 Ranged Shock Damage, good offensive Supports, Flying T3, Lots of mana/magic/ranged RG

    #198521

    Sir Toine
    Member

    i played an elve rogue recently, nothing special except the total awareness on succbus. elves focus on ranged, and rogue is about melee backstab, so meh.
    mm foretry is always neat though, for super fast assassin in the woods.

    #198525

    NINJEW
    Member

    Elf Theo sounds good to me, Storm Sisters that can heal and tough Crusaders blocking for your archers.

    #198528

    Zaskow
    Member

    Elf Theo sounds good to me, Storm Sisters that can heal and tough Crusaders blocking for your archers.

    Elven Crusaders are worse than Dwarven, Orc or Frostling.
    Actually almost all Theo class units (except Evangelists) get nothing from elves.

    #198532

    All elven racial units are either solid or better, and they have the best ranged damage options available. Their RG cements these advantages.

    As such elves are good for every class as you will always find a use for ranged and/or support and/or highly mobile cavalry. And their infantry isn’t something to ignore either.

    I don’t think they are the best for every class, but they are clearly above average for each class. And while every race has something interesting for every class, the high elven contributions are a lot more obvious and tactics-shaping.

    #198533

    Yeah, elves are quite bad necros because of the low health and lack of blight immunity. Elves are also bad theocrat bases because they just don’t add much to the class. And total awareness is less valuable on a unit that can act from short range (the evangelist), and the crusaders get nothing.

    Of course, elf storm sisters are an excellent addition to theocrat armies, but not as the base. You need good martayrs and crusaders for that.

    Dreadnought is an interesting choice. The muskets and unicorn riders are quite good, but pistol gryphons aren’t that exciting. I’d say dwarf and human are much better, but elves are probably after them. I don’t know if goblin dread lost out due to musket changes.

    I’d still pick frostling sorc as number one, for the stun freeze phase bomb and the general excellence of the white witch. Even arcane arrows isn’t as good as that. Still, elves are probably 2 or 3, depending on drag rating.

    As for rogue, I’d say they are bad for assassins, good for bards, and very good for succubi. Of course, frostlings have exposre, chill, and the shadow stalker together. Tigrans number 1, so elves would be middle of the pack (do people like halfling rogue? I could see lesser stalker and lucky assassin stuff).

    #198538

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    I’d pick the frostlings any day for sorcs over the elves. Far better powerful options there and great combos of fire, ice, and shock damage.

    The elves don’t make great theocrats really or necros.

    They are probably the best arch druids though others are pretty close to them now (i.e., tigrans). I think they are the best warlords hands down though. Stunning manticores and supports + longbow horse archers.

    I don’t find the elves to be particularly good dreads. The extra little damage is okay but I find the extra armor options from the dwarves to be superior. Other races have nice things for dreads too.

    For rogues I prefer the halflings or even the draconians for those backstabbing fliers. Tigrans are good too though they aren’t my personal favourite for a lot of things (I really don’t like the -1 resistance!).

    #198550

    Elfs Ranking for me:

    1) Warlords: one of the best – if not THE best – warlord combo. Amazing Calvary Archers, great Manticores, Good irregulares – that evolve – for the Militia spell, also late game with Global ASsault they have gold storm sisters!

    2) Druids: Amazing Hunters (longbow) and Good Shamans (total awareness) and the extra knowledge is good for getting those summons fasters.

    3) Rogue: I’m not much of a rogue player, but the few times I’ve played with Rogues it was with Elfs (and halflings), they have really good Bards and total awareness succubi.

    4) Dreadnought: They have a good number of armoured units, their T3 is the unit that can get the most of the Pistol Calvary (Maybe a Tie with the Eagles), and the musketeer got the benefits of the Elfs Racial Governance.

    5) Sorcerer: there is some great things, especially the Deity Military Racial Governance. But also a LOT of redundancy, Sorcerers already do too much Shock Damage and having a support that does that as well, besides the gold upgrade on the Storm Sister becomes a bit useless…

    6) Theocrat: Nothing bad, but also nothing special. It is nice to have the Healing Storm Sister…but I still think there is better races for Theo out there (Orcs!)

    7) Necromancer: I never really played with this combo, so I may be mistaken, but I did not see anything special here.

    #198567

    Althea
    Member

    My personal rank for elves.

    They are top druid and warlord indeed.

    Before EL, they are mediocre sorcerer, and below than mediocre theocrat.

    After EL, they are fine sorcerer and fine theocrat, certainly above mediocre but still below great/top tier one. Mainly due to military RG (the one that give no range penalty and no obstacle penalty to support units), without these RG, they are the same as pre EL.

    As for rogue and dreadnought, it’s rather relative to me, but i rate elves better as dreadnought than as rogue. Around fine or below fine.

    #198573

    Gloweye
    Member

    i played an elve rogue recently, nothing special except the total awareness on succbus. elves focus on ranged, and rogue is about melee backstab, so meh.<br>
    mm foretry is always neat though, for super fast assassin in the woods.

    All Assassin’s have Forestry, you don’t need elves for that.

    That said, the Initiates will do insane damage on melee flanking attack, benefitting from 3 damage channels(Poison Mastery) and backstab. I’ve seen it go over 30 damage against T1’s.

    Also, a Rogue Hero’s group Armor Piercing and Poison Knowledge is terrifying on Elven Longbowman. However, that’s not really class benefits, more the hero. Blight Protection is generally useful, but not a reason to go for it IMHO.

    Later in the game, Total Awareness Succubi is the only real advantage I can see. I’ve played the combo extensively before EL, so I haven’t been able to check that.

    ————————————————————————————————

    As for Elven Necro, the Storm Sisters get really terrifying. You can build them at Silver Medal, which makes it a short route to Gold and Inflict Stun. Racial Governance gives them insane ranged damage when you finally get that high, but that’s not really something coming into play early enough. Still, pretty decent.

    The absence of Blight Immunity sucks, but IMHO it’s not that much worse than a Halfling’s 20% Physical Weakness, number wise – unless you meet really heavy blight damage or get unlucky on inflicts, as I believe they will affect your morale. Not sure though.

    As for the other troops, Longbowman are good at killing at range so you might take a bit less damage, but TBH I doubt if it’s really that influential. The Sisters are neat though.

    #198591

    vota dc
    Member

    The absence of Blight Immunity sucks, but IMHO it’s not that much worse than a Halfling’s 20% Physical Weakness, number wise – unless you meet really heavy blight damage or get unlucky on inflicts, as I believe they will affect your morale. Not sure though.

    It sucks against units that have just a little blight damage: not being immune means you get always that 1-2 minimum additional damage, so compared to other ghouls it is like having -1 defense against that kind of enemy.

    #198608

    DerMentat
    Member

    As elves theocrats have the advantage that they are not as vulnerable as with other races to Dreadnaughts.

    Besides good archers are imho are really useful addition to a theocrat army, especially because their troops are slow anyway.

    #198640

    I think elves make decent necros.
    +1 Res reduces the severity of their weaknesses quite a bit, and their basic racial lineup is great anyway. And while the bit of blight damage can suck it can just be advantage against the AI, as all the poison-spitting units wont use their more damaging melee attacks.

    The downside with Necro they have is that they lack added synergies. But their baseline is good enough to still be powerful.

    #198661

    quo
    Member

    At least in the case of the Theocrat, unless you are looking for the absolute cutting edge, any race is good with any class. You can’t just look at the class units and go “Well they get something extra so this is a better combo.” That’s true of all of the classes, but especially with something like a Theocrat that doesn’t really need its class units that much, particularly Exalted, a unit I don’t even bother to research anymore.

    Elven Theocrats. Put Mighty Meek on an Elven Archer and tell me it’s not knocking the Ritz crackers out of enemy heroes. (Same with Goblin Theocrats and their archers, who everyone loves to hate on.)

    Theocrats are weak to Dreadnoughts and Elves bring shock damage.

    Devout Gryphon Riders easily replace the dodgy Exalted class unit.

    Total Awareness on Evangelists that lets them clump up into heal clusters no one can flank.

    When I play a Theocrat, no matter what race I start as, any of the other races are good for recruitment. Because they are all good.

    #198663

    That is not true at all. Theocrat strategies usually involve clearing at a higher rate than others to power level, and then use the resource glut to destroy the enemy before other people catch and surpass them in the late game.

    You can do exalted martayrs, crusader and martayrs, or leader convert bonanaza reinforced with evangelists later on, with other specialization specific things.

    That makes the quality of martayrs and or crusaders a critical theocrat question. Orcs have great versions of both, as do halflings, and dwarves have solid those units and excellent evangelists. Elves have neither great martayrs nor crusaders, so it puts them at a district disadvantage. Evangelists come out too late.

    Goblins with demolisher at least have a niche anti machine role. This doesn’t mean that elves are a bad supplement, storm sisters and gryphons are good.

    As for elves, I think the additional -10% population growth is quite annoying on top of the necros slowness.

    #198664

    I tend to agree with chrysophylax, Theocrat is a class that races does mather a lot. And Orcs, Dwarfs, Halflings does have an edge over Elfs. I would also include Humans with Spirit Ray Evangelists which make them more versatile.

    #198676

    Haven’t tried them much yet, but I quite like Frostling theocrat. Crusaders dealing ice damage, bolstered by Frozen Flames, (suddenly they kill stuff with 3+ damage channels, as well as tank) White Witches and Frost Queens with healing, Mammoth riders to deliver the heavy punches and finally enough healing to keep them alive until gold medals and killing momentum.

    Class units? We don’t need no stinking class units. Well, okay, 3+ damage channel exalted are also pretty neat. And martyrs are still kinda needed as royal guards can’t shield the crusaders.

    Add in Shadowborn mastery to give your guys shock damage on top of the physical, frost and holy (and sometimes fire) you have going… yeah, I’ll take the 5 damage channel crusaders in my theocrat hero’s stack.

    Admittedly, the fire vulnerability can mess your plans up pretty well, but hey. These are fun to play. Freeze the world in the name of the queen!

    #198699

    thabob79
    Member

    Elves open others tactics with rogues. Usually you dont bother with archers but a stack of 3 archer, 1bard (or 2/2) and 2 assassins make good mix. Decent for defense, able on attack and can be produce only by village with 2 building. Archer (and probably bards) open a new channel for rogue on rogue action with arcane arrow

    #198899

    Ludomancer
    Member

    Elves make great Rogues when they are not your primary race. When I play Halfling Rogue, I try to find an Elf town to conquer/purchase ASAP for the Elf bards. Storm Sisters are also very helpful in Rogue armies, as Stunning Touch lets your Assassins backstab all day long. Unicorn Riders/Griffon Riders with Backstab are just scary. Nothing says “I love you” like phasing in behind enemy walls and killing a ranged defender in one hit.

    Rogues also give Elves a cheaper way of getting Storm Sisters: Initiates + Irregular Training. It takes but a few fights to level Initiates into Sisters once you have Training, especially if you have the Griffin Spire.

    Ludomancer

    #198943

    Gloweye
    Member

    Unicorn Riders/Griffon Riders with Backstab are just scary.

    Yep, to bad they don’t get it. Poison Mastery helps though.

    #199069

    quo
    Member

    That is not true at all. Theocrat strategies usually involve clearing at a higher rate than others to power level, and then use the resource glut to destroy the enemy before other people catch and surpass them in the late game.

    Theocrats get Convert early. I don’t even bother building units for the first 25 or so turns because I can rarely afford them, as many as are being converted. Maybe that’s less doable if you auto resolve everything but its significantly doable in tactical.

    Exalted are very weak for a T3 unit and altars don’t vary at all by race. But every race has something to offer a Theocrat. There is literally a unit from every single race that, in a perfectly ideal army, I would want on hand for some situation.

    #199276

    NuMetal
    Member

    I’d still pick frostling sorc as number one, for the stun freeze phase bomb and the general excellence of the white witch.

    They don’t freeze anymore.

    #199282

    Unknown250
    Member

    Exalted are very weak for a T3 unit and altars don’t vary at all by race. But every race has something to offer a Theocrat. There is literally a unit from every single race that, in a perfectly ideal army, I would want on hand for some situation.

    IMHO Exalted make up for their weakness with Resurgence. The fact that they’re guaranteed to survive any battle you win means they can get up to absurd levels. It’s not uncommon for me to have a bunch of Exalted pushing Champion 2 or even 3 in fairly short order. They’re almost like the Bone Collector, in that sense. Pretty underwhelming right out of the gates, but with a lot of potential. Plus, I mean, Inflict Daze on bronze.

    Anyway, back to the topic at hand:

    I love Elven Rogues but really the only advantage they have is Elven Bards. I mean, they’ve got a couple other nice things – Succubi with Total Awareness and Forest Concealment on Scoundrels, the latter of which is hilarious against Dreadnoughts – but by and large there isn’t a whole lot of synergy there.

    That being said, Elven Bards really are something else. Competent in melee, deadly at range, and the ability to Charm. Awesome unit, especially for rushes. The power of Longbows…

    Speaking of which, I’d say my preferred class for Elves is the Archdruid. I agree that Elven Warlords are pretty rad, but for a variety of reasons Elves and Warlords are both weak against Rogues, and combining the two together can be leaving yourself exposed, a bit. Archdruid provides some nice buffs to Archers, as well as a powerful and versatile T1 Archer unit. Conjuring up Dense Vegetation at will is also fun – it makes your territory a real hassle to navigate without Forestry (while incidentally also making your cities and troops happy). Toss Poison Domain into the mix, and you become a real pain to invade.

    #199365

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>chrysophylax páuperem wrote:</div>
    I’d still pick frostling sorc as number one, for the stun freeze phase bomb and the general excellence of the white witch.

    They don’t freeze anymore.

    Frost Queens do.

    Phase in the middle of a group, ice nova with double stun/freeze chance. Pretty cool.

    #199367

    NuMetal
    Member

    Frost Queens do.

    Phase in the middle of a group, ice nova with double stun/freeze chance. Pretty cool.

    Oooooh damn!
    Hadn’t even thought about that! 😀

    I thought he was talking about the White Witch. But yeah, that’s even cooler!

    #199550

    CrazyElf
    Member

    Come to think of it, who makes a good sorcerer?

    I don’t think they make great sorcerers. I’d like to see some other type of damage than lightning and some sort of other advantage to complement their strengths.

    Among the others, I’d say:

    Dreadnought:
    Human > Dwarf >>> High Elf

    Theocrat:
    I think that a melee race like Orc or Dwarf would work best. Maybe Tigran?

    Necromancer, I’d lean towards maybe Hafling? Frostling too might work well.

    #199558

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Come to think of it, who makes a good sorcerer?

    I don’t think they make great sorcerers. I’d like to see some other type of damage than lightning and some sort of other advantage to complement their strengths.

    Frostlings make fantastic Sorcerers, for the reasons stated above by various people.

    And for Theocrats – Orcs are the champions for me, but Frostlings are actually pretty good because you can get a damage channel other than Spirit. (However, Humans and Draconians get ranged attacks on their Evangelists which is a pretty good advantage)

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