October 29, 2015 at 21:33 #236177
The time has come, today I’ve started building my Dark Elf Dwelling. It’s going smoother then expected, though it’s still going to take some time.
In the meantime, here’s a little screenshot:
When I release it, it will be a full dwelling, including tailored quests and RMG implementation.October 29, 2015 at 21:59 #236182
Why not a full blown race?October 29, 2015 at 22:32 #236184
Why not a full blown race?
Because it is an immense amount of work, which also includes my voluntarily modelling dark elves for this even though not being the main author 😛October 29, 2015 at 22:41 #236185
Because of lore. After the Shadow War, their dominant presence in the shadow world, and the Mending, there’s simply not enough of them left.
Here’s what I wrote as race summary:
Not all Dark Elves attended the mending; a small group was led away by a Dark Elf known as Hester. Away from the other elves, they preserved their Dark Elf mentality and managed to coexist. Few in number and slow in growth as all elves, individual prowess on the battlefield became very important to the Dark Elves, hence they are all highly skilled in combat.
The Dark Elves hold onto their past prominent place in the Cult of Storms, cherishing the lore and deepening their understanding of the magic used by the ancient Stormlords, the most magically skilled among them have taken this title for themselves. However, none of the Dark Elves shun the more mundane ways to kill members of other races; they are no less skilled with Poisons than they were in the days when Meandor still led them.
Unlike those who participated in the Mending, the Dark Elves see the subterranean world as their haven of safety, refusing to build their homes on the surface where any can see them.
–Elves of the Night, by Ham the Wanderer
Don’t worry – I WILL make it a full race for the AoW 1 project.
As a side reason, the awesome parts of the race fit better in a dwelling then in a default race.May 21, 2016 at 08:09 #244778
Some additional feedback after preliminary testing and reading the description on the wiki:
1 – I was afraid you would have too many buildings, units, etc. to be really a Dwelling and not a semi-Race. But actually it seems you got the numbers right. Some changes (decrease in number of units / buildings) may be necessary but it’s more or less ok with 6 units and your buildings that exclude each other.
2 – in general, I think the units are currently quite OP. They are difficult to build so that partly compensates but we have to keep in mind you can convert or get them through quests, so they must not be too strong. The morale malus on the surface that you added is a step in the good direction, but it may be necessary to go further.
For instance, 2 x 40% of resistance and only 20% of weakness? Other races and minor races have all (but some exceptions) have 20% or 40% net resistance (e.g. 60% resistance and 20% weakness). I believe, either the Dark Elves should have 40% Spirit weakness or they should get an additional malus on the surface, like 60% Spirit weakness when in the surface (similar implementation to Night Vision which apply when in the UG) or a “Decay” when in the surface: no regeneration and -8 HP / turn.
3 – you have too many high-tier units and no T1. Wouldn’t it be better to have 1 T1 and delete one of the T2? The Sniper (still called Sharpshooter in your Wiki) does not bring much new things. He looks like a High Elve Archer. I propose to remove it and make a T1 unit instead, or make it a T1 itself (and reduce its strength).
4 – Bladedancer
Seems ok, except Tireless – too strong for a T2. Killing Momentum on Elite is also too strong for a T2. It already has Double Strike, it’s already a great and very specific unit, don’t make it too strong. Maybe add poison abilities at Elite? Or a “sacrifice-like” ability which deals a lot of damage but makes it lose 50% HP or something. Or a defensive ability similar to Shadow Form (Blade Dance) but that prevents it from attacking. I don’t know if you played Warhammer but the Wooden Elves have something like Bladedancer and they have dances with different effects. It would be interesting to have something like this (for Elite).
+ I think a more in-depth comparison with other units is warranted to check its price.
5 – Spider Matriarch – looks good. More in-depth comparison with other units may be warranted to check its price.
6 – Executionner – same as Spider Matriarch
7 – Shades – OK, actually I thought Assassins were T3 but they’re T2, so Shades are not as OP as I thought. Ok to keep them T3. However, I think Incorporeal gives them a slightly too big boost. Also the medals boost transform them from excellent units to war machines. Maybe you should think about less strong boosts on medals. I’m not sure how to nerf them but they need an additional nerf. Maybe -5 HP.
Assassins vs Shades
Tier: 2 vs 3
HP: 50 vs 55
MP: 32 vs 28
Def: 11 vs 9
Res: 9 vs 9
Cost: 90 gold + 20 mana vs 110 gold + 60 mana
Melee: 10 phys + 4 poison vs 8 phys + 4 poison
Assassin’s Strike: 20 phys + 9 poison vs 18 phys + 8 poison
Common abilities: Backstab, Forest Concealment, Forestry, Urban Concealment
Other abilities: Undead Slayer, Inflict Severely Poisoned, Mountain Concealment, Wall Climbing vs Blight Concealment, Shadow Step, 100% Blight Protection, Incorporeal (60% Physical Protection, Pass Wall, immunity to Stunned, Immolated, phys debuffs) 40% Shock Protection, 20% Spirit Weakness, Coup de Grace, Projectile Resistance, Cave Crawling, Cave Concealment
7 – Storm’s Lord: looks very strong but after all, it’s a T4. Maybe give it Mind Control Immunity to prevent people from converting it too easily.
8 – Regarding the buildings, I am not an expert as I very rarely build units in dwelling through building (I get through quests or converts). Did you study the prices of other dwelling buildings?
Very good job anyway! 🙂May 21, 2016 at 09:49 #244781
3) The 40% spirit weakness, it’s up for consideration. Wanted more testing before I did it.
3)Actually, exisiting dwellings are generally of higher tiers…dragons for example have 3x T2 and 3x T4. Naga have 1/2/2/1, and are most balanced, while giants have 0/0/1/3, Merfolk have 0/3/1/1 and fey have 1/3/1/0 (and are the lowest by far on average.). Archons have 2/2/1/1, also being pretty low.
Another reason I have for their high tiers are that there’s only very few of them – they WILL expend effort on training, because otherwise they can’t manage.
Being so high trained, I think T2 is the right place for the sniper.
4) The idea for Bladedancers was simple, high damage, and being very fragile to counterattack. When defending, they deal less damage than most T1 infantry(double strike doesn’t work on defense), and die just as fast(martial arts doesnt work on defense either). This makes them completely unsuitable for line infantry duties, which I hope would provide sufficient drawback for their offensive power.
Tireless just…felt right, but I can take it out I think.
Killing Momentum tho….it really fits my feel for the unit. Once it gets going, it gets going good.
In my own testing tho…it proved a significant challenge to actually get them to elite.
5)Its a bit of a utility monster. Pricing has mostly been gut feeling all over, but 180/3 turns(2 with max happiness, which isn’t that hard to get) felt like a good place for me. Note that Matriarch has been changed, which i’d forgotten to put through – right now, they don’t give any morale boost, but make the dark elves immune to negative morale modifiers, same as Solace does (from the flowers).
6) Actually, I occasionally found them to be very strong, partly due to getting Life Drain on gold and their immense synergy with the Stormlords – give them the blessing and the will really turn everything to shreds, stun their enemies, and then proceed to heal back up…
7) Note that your previous commentary resulted in -1/-1 def resistance and -4 shock melee damage. As your comparison shows, they now actually deal less damage than Assassins.
Incorporeal just….needs to be there I think. It’s really part of the unit as it was in AoW2, both the protection as the pass wall.
Why they get all the nice stuff on medals….life steal was a part of their skillset in AoW2, so I felt it couldn’t really be left out. Total Awareness….I probably like that ability way to much. What’s your thoughts on throwing Awareness out and changing Shadow Step from inherent to Gold ? That should be a decent nerf, since it takes away a lot of opportunities for backstabs. I could also take away Projectile Resistance?
7) They are, but they die like flies when they’re closed in upon. Not having mind control immunity was supposed to be a weakness, BTW.(and yes, it was a deliberate decision. The only unit that I might give immunity was the matriarch…)
8) I did compare them a bit in pricing, yes. If you want to fill the dwelling up, it’s pretty expensive, but the plan for early power should consist of picking a T3 and going for that one first. (hint: Shadowborn Executioners are awesome)
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