Eomolch

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  • in reply to: Modding guide and videos Beginners to Advanced #244875

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hey vfxrob, thanks for the heads-up and impressive to see that you pulled yourself through those problems all by yourself.

    One specific thing I would like to ask you right away is if you had to change the view of the skeleton in maya to look like it did in your guide. Because for me it shows all the movement boxes (? or this is what I think it might be) instead of just the bones which makes it a mess to look at and can only be worked with in hidden state (which then again means I only have the template as a fix point).

    in reply to: [MOD] The Old Man and the Sea #244836

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hey Thariorn, I was actually carrying that idea around with me for quite a while now, but there were other mods I wanted to make first and also for some reason I didn’t think of additional treasure sites to complement the sea posts before.

    I also had a couple of other ideas which unfortunately proved to be impossible to realize (defensive spells for the sea post/fortress, ships being able to bombard coastal cities, visit structures that grant resources instead of unit properties/effects). But generally I must say that I am pretty happy with how things turned out now. I will have to see how things will work in real games so I’m also happy about any feedback in that direction (e.g. I am not sure if increasing the ship cost was an overreaction on my part).

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #244814

    Eomolch
    Member

    I contacted only BBB and you before today. BBB was also interested but has no modelling skills.
    I contacted people with potential modelling skills today only so no answer yet: Eomolch, Tibbles, iHunterKiller… I also contacted other people who uploaded visual changes in Steam, we will see.

    Hi Hiliadan, I read your message on steam, so I’ll give my 2 cents to this. First I have to say that while I am flattered that you asked me about models, the truth is that for all my mods so far (with one tiny exception) I only used the content ED and there was (luckily) no real modeling whatsoever involved. I am currently learning how to export unit models from other games to AoW3 using ninjaripper and maya, but that is about as far as my modeling experience goes. I don’t know yet if I will be able to master the weight painting part at some time, but what I do know is that I already spent like 5 hours on my first model in that respect (only the weight painting!) and am still far from being done with it so even if I wanted I couldn’t say yes to anything that would need me to deliver specific unit models.

    I’d advise you to ask vfxrob. He has a lot more experience with model imports (and made an excellent tutorial on that topic), maybe he would be interested to help.

    Best regards,
    Eomolch

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 12 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Modding guide and videos Beginners to Advanced #244762

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hey vfxrob! First of all great tutorial (Creating a skinned model for the game), I really think this thread deserves a sticky. 🙂

    So I followed your tutorial for the model import and run into trouble with the weight painting. You see in maya the model is now animating pretty well after I did most of the weight painting, but for some reason in the content editor the animation is now completely screwed up. It can’t be an export problem since the animation “worked” well before, just that it still had a bunch of problem zones that needed to be taken care of. Now that I did (though some parts were still missing, e.g. legs) it is screwed in the content ED and I have really no clue why. Maybe you experienced something like this before and have a tip how to fix it or at least avoid this in my next attempt? Or maybe can you take a look at my maya file and see if you find anything peculiar about the weight painting I did?

    Best regards,
    Eomolch

    edit: Never mind, I found the problem just after I wrote this post :O Somehow I created two clusters (whatever that is) which for some reason screwed the complete model/animation up. Deleting them solved the problem – but now I could see there is still a lot to improve :O So if you have any more tips regarding weight painting than what you mentioned in the tutorial I would be happy to hear about them 😉

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 12 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Request for Devs: Lord of the Deep Collada #244705

    Eomolch
    Member

    Taking things back again. Gone through the conversion process now and the siren can use the naga unit rig, but not the lord of the deep rig. So he must in fact really use a different collada. Request renewed 🙂

    in reply to: Opencollada plugin (ubuntu) #244703

    Eomolch
    Member

    You are right about moxing vertices … it actually works quite well in maya. I was surprised 😀 However now I had to discover that the lord of the deep doesn’t use the naga collada. The newly exported siren model can now use the naga rig, but not the lord of the deep rig. Also I will have to do the weight painting again, but I am not sure yet if I will continue since I think the naga rig and animation look rather stupid for the unit (and I would have to do the whole thing again for the armor I wanted to use). Not to mention the low poly due to ninjaripper makes the unit look a lot worse than how it would look if the version in the content ED would work (maybe I can smoothen the model in maya). So in summary, very depressing results, especially since the unit looks (and animates) so great in the content ED without all this.

    in reply to: Opencollada plugin (ubuntu) #244700

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hey vfxrob, you were wright, the lord of the deep does indeed use the naga collider. You know by any chance a trick for the reshaping process? I am not particularly good at moving vertices :/

    Also great job on your maya tutorial btw. I followed it yesterday to create my first unit with an exported model from another game. I still need to go into detail with the weight painting but it already works with rigging in the content ED, so I will not need the opencollada plugin for maya, but can do with the existing fbx.dae export.

    in reply to: Request for Devs: Lord of the Deep Collada #244699

    Eomolch
    Member

    Ok, never mind my asking. vfxrob was right, the lord of the deep uses the naga collider. 😉

    in reply to: Opencollada plugin (ubuntu) #244666

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hi vfxrob, thanks for the hints! I came across the fbx.dae export option yesterday but I wasn’t sure it would work, so good to hear you already used it with success.

    I am not sure what exactly you mean by downloading a fresh template model? (I am pretty new to this whole modelling buisness) I too noticed import / export errors with the collada files from triumph, but how can I work around them? (if that is what you mean)

    You see, my original problem (why I started all this) was that I created a new merfolk unit by replacing some of the lord of the deep meshes in the content editor with meshes of the siren. The mean thing about this is, the unit animates just fine in the content editor, but when I want to apply the lord of the deep rig it complains about a couple of bones (head, neck, left item, right item). So now I exported the siren model with ninjaripper and imported it to maya (after importing it to blender, since maya doesn’t seem able to directly use ninjaripper+rip2obj .obj files), but now it turns out the lord of the deep skeleton isn’t even among the collada files -,- Also my guess is that even if I can get my hands on it I would have to adjust the “pose” of the siren mesh and I am not sure if my modelling skills are good enough for this. (or if it would break the UV mapping)

    Maybe you see another solution to this problem?

    edit: whoops, I was talking about the siren ofc, not the nymph

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 12 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Change existing combat maps #244636

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hi Gloweye, thanks a lot for your detailed response. (and great job on the well of life map btw)

    Since the maps I would like to change are water maps I don’t think the trick you mention with fertile plains / barrens would work, though I could be wrong. But I will come back to it when the rest of the mod is done, since it is more a nice to have thing, nothing mandatory (and if I changed a map I would want to make more drastic changes, which, as you point out may be very difficult to achieve if not impossible).

    in reply to: [Mod] Hero Development Mod #243259

    Eomolch
    Member

    Yes and no. It was more an ideal thought concerning one spell per turn. The reason having multiple spells per turn was removed was because spells have no range limit, and can be stacked, so a group of 6 Sorcerors could let of 6 chain lightnings in one go, which was…unpleasant.

    Making spells into abilities effectively introduces limiting factors such as range and mp, which means there is more inbuilt balance. For example, Lightning from Horned Gods.

    Now, I believe that making these Hero abilities is a cool idea, especially if they are mutually exclusive, because thus you can get
    Summoners (self explanatory)

    Illusionists (summonfake units as a battle distraction, blind the enemy etc, eventually learn the current mass illusion strategic map ability)

    Warlocks (debuffs?)/Battlemage (direct damage spells)/

    casters or generalists (the current hero level paradigm, but focussed on cp, with a wide range of spells) as Sorceror subbranches. Also, your regular casting pool is still important, because those have no range limitations.

    Thus, the player has the choice of going for mass casting pools, in order to be able to hang back and cast fireballs with no range, but there is a mana limit, or can become a BattleMage who can always cast fireballs, because s/he knows them innately, but the tradeoff is that they require positioning, are subject to range and line of sight limitations.

    For flavour, you could make the version from the casting pool more powerful, so you can have a range limited, weaker version that never ‘runs out’ (but requires action points) or the more powerful, range unlimited version, that requires mana.

    Ok, at first I was a little confused because I didn’t realize you are talking about the sorcerer class only, but now I get your reasoning. This sounds actually like a cool concept which might be more fitting than what I did for the sorcerer in the hero development mod. It certainly would be more advanced and complex. It would lead to some asymmetry compared to the other classes but that would be ok as long as this doesn’t imply imbalance as well. The only problem I personally have with the idea is that it would require me to sacrifice the already finished concept currently used in my hero mod, so I’m not convinced the amount of work necessary to do this would outweigh the gains. But this is really just talking from my personal perspective, so if you or anyone else would like to go for this I would be very interested to see the results. (Also, since I have considerable experience with this kind of content in the mod editor I could help with problems or questions during the process.)

    Also a very good idea imho. You could make your Sorceror hero have the following choices:

    Sorceror (base)

    ==> BattleMage (gets magic fist) =leads to=> Air Master (chain lightning) OR Fire Master (Fireball) and so on, and make the sphere picks exclusive, so Fire Masters get some lovely stuff but can’t pick water.

    ==> Enchanter (default spell) =leads to=> Air (learns haste), Fire (fire halo).

    ==> Illusionist (gets own stable of spells around this, but more importantly has strategic map abilities)

    One would need to be careful not to make either strat map abilities or spells as abilities too strong thoguh.

    To be honest, I think either idea is worth exploring.

    Hehe, now you misunderstood me as well, though I do like what you propose (it would fit the concept for the sorcerer you mentioned above like a glove). What I actually was referring to were the race-dependant professions from my hero mod part 2. So e.g. goblin pyromancer could learn fireball, the human witch black lightning, halfling cook skin of oil (hrhr) etc… It is something I will consider again once the core mod is done for all races.

    @gilafron: Thank you for sharing your impressions and observations regarding spells turned into abilities, though I think you also got BBB’s post wrong since I suspect he was strictly speaking about the sorcerer class. In fact I am not sure how this concept could work for the other classes but since you already toyed around with the idea you can maybe enlighten me? Generally speaking I would agree with your conclusion that simply turning all the spells into (short-range) abilities probably isn’t worth the effort especially since the gain from it is uncertain. (And yes, overfull ability bars are a nuisance :/) It can make sense for select abilities or maybe even a considerable number of abilities when they are part of a bigger concept (e.g. something like BBB proposed for the sorcerer). Just turning them into abilities for the sake of it sounds to arbitrary. Even if from a logical point of view the difference between abilities and spells sometimes may seem just that arbitrary it does make sense from a game-mechanic and -balance point of view with spells just being a special class of abilities with their own advantages and disadvantages. By eliminating them you would also eliminate that layer of depth (along with other unsettling effects like leaders suddenly not being able to cast spells in a combat that they aren’t present in).

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: [Mod] Hero Development Mod #243216

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hi BBB, to be honest, I didn’t really consider this option, in case of the fireball it was more due to a lack of alternatives than because I thought it was a great thing to do. I agree, that a range limit could balance such abilities, but I fear a large-scale implementation of such skills would still threaten spell casting to become less important (though, if I get you right, this may be actually something you want to accomplish).

    A different idea that occurred to me and on contrary to yours would attempt to make hero spell casting a little more attractive again, is to add one of the combat spells from among the player specializations (so magical spheres + alignment specs) to each of the professions from my hero professions mod. I would probably make them available around level 5, but I am not certain yet if there are enough suitable spells around or if I would have to create a good number of new spells myself for this purpose (in that case I’ll probably let the idea go).

    in reply to: [WIP] Hero Professions Mod #243186

    Eomolch
    Member

    ****Update***

    Now 6/9 races are done 🙂

    — Frostlings: Frost Witch/Hut Warden/Lumberjack
    — Orcs: Gladiator/Slavedriver/Voodoo Priest
    — Goblins: Blight Doctor/Pest Keeper/Pyromancer

    For the remaining three races I am still open to (reasonable) suggestions. There are still some gaps to fill idea-wise. 😉

    in reply to: Making new abilities #242347

    Eomolch
    Member

    It means that you can’t take the HP of the sacrificed unit as the value for the buff (same goes for the damage buff). Those can only have constant values. Also you won’t be able to target just any of your units for the buff. Only the caster, all friendly units or all units within a certain range of the sacrificed units are possible targets for the buff.

    in reply to: Uploading problems (revisited) #242214

    Eomolch
    Member

    Thanks HousePet, I actually checked if there was another beta available, but it turns out when the aow launcher is still open it won’t show available betas -,- But now that you told me I looked again et voila 🙂 so thank you!

    in reply to: Evolving Custom units into Custom units #240683

    Eomolch
    Member

    If you don’t mind seeing some actual code, I would recommend you to use a good text editor. Personally I’m using notepad++ and it’s not really any more complicated than excel. Actually I’d argue it’s easier once you know which of the lines are relevant for you.

    in reply to: Most common reasons for ability not showing up? #239113

    Eomolch
    Member

    Hm, not sure if that is what you mean, but if you want to add your own icons, there is a description of how to add them in the official modding tools documentation. You can find them in the modding tools release news.

    in reply to: Most common reasons for ability not showing up? #239095

    Eomolch
    Member

    Not sure if this still helps you, but racial t3 buildings and city link data (which you need to make your new structure buildable) can both be found in the AoW_CityProperties.rpk. The other relevant stuff is in the .rpk you mentioned.

    Also, to make your mod compatible with other mods, you should make new city link data entries instead of editing the existing ones.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238958

    Eomolch
    Member

    First of all, I am happy to hear that Charlatan will have the final decision in most questions 🙂

    Now, for the sake of making progress, I will try to be short…

    I only know that it would be very strange if all the races locked in the shadow realm didn’t evolve in some kind during the centuries that they spend there

    Did the others?

    No, the didn’t. They’re the same, just some cultural shift and finally freedom of choice.

    Well what kind of evolution would you expect from the other races except for cultural (and technological: dreadnought) changes? The difference is that they didn’t pass the time in the shadow realm (which as pointed out by Charlatan, HousePet and Dr_K could have been significantly longer for them). I mean you want to tell me a dark magical place full of chaos and energy that “created” beings such as the shadow demons, syron, eldritch horrors, watchers (according to sorcerer class) wouldn’t have any effect on them over a possible timespan of several thousand years?

    More importantly, from a modders point of view, it would be a real waste of an incredible opportunity here to not make the new archon/dark elf related dwellings different from their old incarnations. You can make “ordinary” archons or dark elves all day, there would be no problem whatsoever finding an explanation why some of them may have had to stay behind in athla or didn’t join the mending in case of the dark elves (it is not like frostlings, tigrans and halflings didn’t just show up after centuries of absence). But when we have the glorious opportunity to fill the shadow realm where there are only few boundaries for our imagination I would say it would be a damn tragedy if we let that opportunity go to waste.

    And of course this doesn’t have to mean any cross-over dwellings where several of those races are mixed (though it could :P). But imho it should mean a significant change to those races that reflects the effect of passing all that time in the shadow world (and possibly the ongoing war with the shadow demons). (e.g. I really like your ‘shadow elves’ idea in that respect, even though I would probably try to give them a different name)

    Also, for shadow weed, we can just call the effect of it shadow weed and give it the description “negates the effects of the shadow sickness”.

    Sounds like a good plan. Then Shadow Walker would be the requisite for native races and Draconians, and the others could counteract it with Weed only, since there’s no human enchantments anyway. Application through Avatar Starting skills seems the way to go IMO. Shadow Walker, as a requisite, could also be MCU-bestowed – my suggestion was the Shadow Weed building, but that’s of course open to debate, like everything.

    It is good we can agree on something 😉

    The method’s currently used by the Heart Structures. I’m not 100% sure regarding the details but it allows you to add/activate player properties dependent on domain structures – but it might be completely on the player prop side, with a “Functions only if structure {structurename} is in this property’s domain.”

    Thank you, I will take a look at the hearts then.

    Also, when it comes to assigning jobs, I’d be interested in either doing one of the dwellings or the shadow layer avatar skills (+ structure skills, if I figure out how that works). (by which I mean doing the “coding” part)

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238934

    Eomolch
    Member

    @gloweye: There is ‘AoW Unit Property: Layer Stats Modifier’. … well .. ninjaed^^

    That’s indeed the one. I’m pretty sure Night Vision is currently the only thing in the base game actually using it, but I’m sure the property can be used for this purpose as well.

    Yes, though I’m not sure why you don’t say 100% sure since you already described how 😛

    Also, for shadow weed, we can just call the effect of it shadow weed and give it the description “negates the effects of the shadow sickness”.

    ———————-
    @gloweye I investigated a little and the only way I see how research can be unlocked through structures is by giving it as a reward for treasure sites. Since a research itself can only have player properties as a requirement you would have to somehow make the structure being inside of the city domain grant that player property and I don’t see how that should be possible. But maybe I missed sth, after all you wouldn’t have brought this up if you didn’t have an idea how to do it.

    @charlatan: Love the first two 🙂 The third seems a little unfitting for the shadow realm (the castle of the lich king looks much more like it would belong there), but I also understand that you want to recycle the models you already had so much work with.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238930

    Eomolch
    Member

    @bob5: I think the problem is that the shadow layer technically counts as underground, so with your version units would also have shadow sickness in the underground.

    You can create a third layer in the mod editor, separate from the currently existing Surface and Underground layers, they’re stored in Terrainlogic.rpk if I’m not mistaken. By making a third Shadow World layer in there you can link the layer stat modifier unit property to that Shadow Layer specifically.

    That is great news. I assumed Gloweye already checked this because it was the first thing that came to my mind.

    @gloweye: There is ‘AoW Unit Property: Layer Stats Modifier’. … well .. ninjaed^^

    I strongly disagree with the ideas to mesh some of the old races into conglomerate dwellings. Having some details or unit types/styles bleed over into other races would make sense, but not a completely meshed identity as suggested.

    Some hundreds of years for immortal races is not enough that I’d say they decided to become all that friendly with the locals, especially between the Dark Elves and Shadow Demons even if they abandoned Meandor. The Syrons taking refuge with the Archons in the Shadow Realm could make some sense, but it would be just as likely that they would try to (or were forced to) finally branch out on their own.

    I only know that it would be very strange if all the races locked in the shadow realm didn’t evolve in some kind during the centuries that they spend there (except for the syron since they are native to the shadow realm). Also I’d say you can find reasonable explanations for almost any kind of set-up in this particular scenario if you want. There are just too many variables. E.g. you say “only” a few hundred years. But we don’t even know if the time passes at a normal pace in the shadow realm. For its inhabitants those few hundred years can have been millenia. Also, even though archons may be immortal (which I actually didn’t know they are) they will still have deaths due to the ongoing war and this means neccessary reprocreation if they didn’t want to perish. New generations however means new ideas, which means change, so why shouldn’t they decide to go serious with the syrons at some point? This doesn’t even consider the changes that the ongoing effects of living in the shadow realm may have caused on them. So a mixed race is entirely possible, though naturally I’m not saying it is the only viable option. But it may be an interesting one.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238919

    Eomolch
    Member

    Why not have Dungeons in the Shadow Realm?
    I’m not overly fussed if there are less production/gold structures and more magical things.

    Ideas:

    Crystal Mines: +10 gold and mana per turn.
    While normal metals are rare in Shadow Realm, valuable and magical gemstones are common.

    Forge of Dreams: +10 production and knowledge per turn.
    In places where reality wears thin, artisans and researchers gather to make their dreams solid.

    Spirit Fountain: +100 growth and undead growth.
    Souls from other worlds enter the Shadow Realm here, seeking reincarnation.

    Shadow Node: +10 mana and knowledge.
    A nodal point in the flows of magic through the Shadows.

    Great ideas 🙂

    If two brilliant minds come up with the same suggestion then it should be an really promising and genius idea worth of thinking about right Lord Eomolch.

    Let me excuse me for missing your post though, I only did a fast scan of posts and might didn’t realize it was the same thing while letting my mind bring down chao… I mean brilliant ideas for a better future of all.

    thus your punishment will be postponed until further notice

    Let this day forever be known as the day the great overlord darkslash showed mercy to an undeserving worm like me, so that his enemies, misinterpreting this move as a sign of weakness would come for him and he can devour their souls in a delicious moment of blood and sardines.

    Now we will have to hear what other people think of our idea before we can take the next step and make concrete suggestions for the dwellings and possible units or themes.

    Because dwellings don’t have to be just races. For example, Archon Undead are dedicated to Evil just because they’re cursed to this existence and their Undeath overrides their goals from when they were alive. Therefore, warranted. In case of Unicorn, it’s just a mystical creature that happens to like good aligned people. Nymphs are very unwarranted IMO – after all, they’re basically designed to turn people to their side by working their lust. For Gold Dragons, see the Unicorn argument.

    I agree on what you write about the existing dwellings, however how does this influence living archons/syrons/dark elves, where is the difference for them if they live in a dwelling instead of a city? Or do you want to portray them as mindless beast-like beings instead of civilized people?

    As why I think alignment should be open for all except for very specific cases, might be my belief that everyone has choice. To me, an entire race of evils/goods just comes across as very bad screenwriting. If an entire group is good or bad, a very good explanation is requires why no single one choose they opposite – either no free choice or them being good/bad is the reason why they’re together in the first place.

    You are ofc right about generalizations like this in the real world. However as I already pointed out, the game isn’t too accurate about this itself. Also, we can always only talk about the military of those races. And if history has told us anything it is that the military is a good place for jerks, so even all military units of a race being classified as dedicated to evil wouldn’t mean the entire population of the coresponding race is dedicated to evil. But ok, you seem to be very strict in this whole matter, but in the end the game is only a model, not everything can be 100% accurate.

    That’s why I wanted the Strategic map structures to be stronger, and have more powerful MCU’s – incentive to get down there and settle the damn thing. It’s hard and there’s a lot of hostile roamers, but also a lot of power if you manage to settle down there and start building units. There’s also plenty space, and more cities == good.

    I understand the reasoning and it is a good path, but you need to give the player some tools to deal with this or you have to make the gains so high that things get imbalanced. (and everything boils down to the question who gets his hands first on the new shadow realm nukes)

    Historically, only native races and Draconians were immune. Since we can’t really have a Shadow Sickness layer modifier, just making it Hated Terrain to the rest would be closest we could get to that.

    The problem here isn’t even with the units but with the population. Founding a city in hated terrain is just horrible, getting anything decent out of it will take ages, though it is actually more likely that the city will rebell before that (since the moral penalty grows whenever the city domain grows). So I’d say since the shadow sickness is already discussed here, it would be the better alternative and allow some races to only dislike or be neutral about the shadow climate.

    Like Shadowborn?

    But that’s aligned.

    No, shadowborn are an evil faction who successfully reopened the shadow gates in search of power. This specialization would be about the response of the world to this new situation, about studiyng the shadow realm, dealing with its threats and eventually (like in most cases of warfare) using it for your own good.

    I like most of these skills, but TBH I would prefer if those can be aquired by going to the shadow realm. There’s huge untapped potential in the game regarding the possibility of basing research on structures in your domain, on the possession of dwellings, or on city upgrades.

    So for example, control of a Shadow Demon Dwelling with a certain structure (Let’s call it Demon Gate) would allow you to cast that spell that summons a Roaming Shadow Demon spawner(Call it Demon Gate as well…).

    Hm while I like the idea of research based upon structures or similar things, I feel like in this particular scenario a specialization is the better solution. Mostly because it is less luck-dependant and therefore plannable. Also it would feel a little strange if you have to go to the shadow realm, clear treasure sites, found a city, build an MCU and finish a research to make it easier to do just everything you had to do to get there (except the research).

    On second thought, maybe it could work to make some of the shadow realm related spells avatar skills (research) and tie others to buildings as you suggested. But did you try if this is really possible? Also, if it does, when will the spell show up in the research book?

    Also, if we agree on some of my above suggestions, shadow weed could give the shadow walker trait to the stack (which essentially does what you proposed, but sounds cooler :D). Oh, and I’m against allowing players to build the Elder Eldritch Horror. It is just way too powerful.

    Powerful enough to explore the Shadow Realm just to gain access to it?

    No, gamebreaking if you ask me. That unit is tremendous. Many people already hate T4 units, what would they think of a unit that is basically T5?

    Here’s my technical thoughts on the Shadow Sickness trait.

    In the RMG, we can pave the entire layer with an invisible Strategic Map Hazard, which can inflict status abilities for strategic turns. Then, on all Shadow Gate Entrances, we can spawn strategic map hazards that remove the status abilities(I think…). This would allow us to inflict Shadow Sickness on the entire layer. However, I can’t think of any other RMG method that does this, and I fear it’s going to cause pain performance wise.

    For custom maps, we can pre-build a Cosmic Event that applies Sickness across a specified layer. Will be a bit more elegant, but will have to be applied manually by the map creator. I am not sure, but a concern I have is that it might block other Cosmic Events.

    And here’s my thoughts on a Shadow Sickness trait if we put it in:

    And I want Shadow Sickness to be a little bit less crippling than in SM. IF we’re going to attempt ugly methods like the Hazard method described above, I would suggest something like -2 Def, -2 Res, -3 Damage. That’s more than bad enough I think. Maybe even make it -1 Def/-1 Res/-3 Dam, though that feels a bit to irrelevant, cause I DO want it to matter if we put it in there.

    I had a similar thought about using map hazards to implement the sickness but I wasn’t sure it would work. If it does, I would at the very least give it a shot since it is imho the better solution than making the shadow climate hated by all races.

    I also agree on the -2 Def, -2 Res, -3 Damage. Maybe throw in some -200 happiness if the shadow climate gets of the ‘hated by all’ list.

    @bob5: I think the problem is that the shadow layer technically counts as underground, so with your version units would also have shadow sickness in the underground.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.

    Eomolch
    Member

    +100 for the damage types being mod-able

    Shadow Magic deserves their own damage channel even if a combination of cold/spirit makes sense.

    I second this 😛
    Magic and Death channel need a return 🙁

    in reply to: Most common reasons for ability not showing up? #238912

    Eomolch
    Member

    In my experience the most common reason for abilities to not show up in the unit panel is that they either miss an ability link or have a wrong primary effect set and by wrong I mean it isn’t part of the ability.

    Usually an ability is ability -> targeter -> effect, so check if each targeter the ability uses has an effect set and than check if the primary effect set in the _ability_ entry is one of the effects of the targeters.

    edit: was there some kind of error message the last time you saved your mod? if that is the case, go to the mod’s folder, copy the yourmodname.~acp and rename it to yourmodname.acp. (you can either back-up or delete the already existing yourmodname.acp). Then it should load.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238908

    Eomolch
    Member

    You really have to explain to me how inherently good (living) Archons in a dwelling are any different from inherently good (living) Archons as a race? :O

    Because you can play them as a starting race. That locks a player into a playstyle before the game’s even begun.

    Hm, but that “lock” already exists with shadowborn and keeper of peace specializations. If you want to have free choice you can still play other races. Also this doesn’t explain your harsh argument against dedicated to good/evil races (as in civil population) since lore-wise there would be no difference about this in a dwelling compared to a city.

    Spawned independents can be made powerful but they can’t be made smart.

    Same for AI players? They’re not really smarter than roamers, they just produce more troops.

    I’m quite sure the devs would disagree on this 😛

    I would think only Shadow Realm starting races. Because for them it’s a danger they’ve learned over the years to fight, but for the rest it’s a completely new danger they don’t know how to handle.

    Actually I’m not sure they should even really remember the last time they fought the shadow demons. Or only very few ppl should. I’m pretty sure for humans e.g. shadow demons persist in legends at best or are completely forgotten.

    Hm, maybe we can find a solution for our little argument here. You see, the main reason why I wanted the returning factions to be races was that this would actually make the shadow realm have some strategic importance which I am not sure a hand full of dwellings can provide. But if we give the players some actually viable options to settle there, maybe it can work. Here are some ideas in respect to that:

    – not all races should hate the shadow theme. some should only dislike it and other maybe even be neutral (goblins? draconians?); or: some units of each race gain the ‘shadow walker’ trait which makes them neutral to shadow theme
    – introduce a new adept+master specialization focussing on the shadow realm
    – shadow realm adept: defensive skills, e.g. a city spell that makes the city like shadow theme, an empire upgrade that gives all support units the banish shadow ability you proposed and the shadow walker enchantment (which affects complete stack for 2-3 turns)
    – shadow realm mastery: offensive skills, e.g. an empire spell that spreads shadow theme in your empire (yes, on the surface!), a spell to summon shadow demon(s) or a spell that summons a shadow realm roaming site next to an enemy city

    However, all that aside, I’m starting to think it might be good to start with a little more lite-version. Just to make the shadow world interesting. My suggestion would be to make a list of treasure sites we want in there, as well as, let’s say, two dwellings.

    I agree here. There is still the option to later do more advanced stuff (such as new classes) later on, once this mod core is finished.

    Also, if we agree on some of my above suggestions, shadow weed could give the shadow walker trait to the stack (which essentially does what you proposed, but sounds cooler :D). Oh, and I’m against allowing players to build the Elder Eldritch Horror. It is just way too powerful.

    @overlorddarkslash: I know I have no right to talk to a superior being like you (and the punishment will be severe), but I must point out that your brilliant mind once again produced a list of very promising suggestions. I especially agree with this part:

    – because of some unexplained burst of magic or simple evolution dwellers (races) could have been combined. you could think about shadow demon corrupted archons/dark elves or syrons. but also that the syrons and archons or syrons and dark elves made a pact and start to work together. by using this you can reduce the amount of dwellings from 4 to 2 without leaving out the shadow realm all stars.

    Since it is roughly the same idea I proposed earlier:

    Now when it comes to possible races or dwellings, as much as I loved the old archons and dark elves, I think their possible new unit line-ups should corespond to the fact that they have been living in the shadow realm for hundreds of years by now (and I don’t just say this to make the dark elf stuff from my racial heritage mod fit in with this project :P) . Actually I could imagine even more drastic changes, like a race/dwelling consisting of the descendents of a mixed race of archons and syrons or dark elves actually allying with (or even controlling) the shadow demons. After all there is no way to know they would stay loyal to Meandor over hundreds of years, especially since it was his “fault” that they are stuck in the shadow realm.

    So e.g. there could the two factions: Archons+Syrons (or rather their descendants) vs. Shadow Demons+Dark Elves.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238895

    Eomolch
    Member

    Well, that’s the point – no race should be good or evil. I’m glad that triumph removed it in AoW 3 and I would disapprove of it coming back. Dwellings don’t have that problem.

    You really have to explain to me how inherently good (living) Archons in a dwelling are any different from inherently good (living) Archons as a race? :O

    Luckily for us, the living Archons did a lot of stuff that could easily be considered evil. For example, they’re pretty racist and supremacist on occasion.

    I guess that depends on how we define “inherently good”. The game isn’t too strict on this itself, after all it allows a dedicated to good necromancers who will slaughter the entire world population. What I want to say by this is that the standards to qualify for “inherently good” shouldn’t be too high, after all nobody is perfect.

    Also, evil orcs/good elves in middle earth IMO is one of the weakest points in the story.

    Fair enough, but this would be an entirely new discussion 😛

    Example the Spawners mentioned in the previous posts. Independents never pose a threat to anyone, only spawners can.

    Players starting with a shadow realm race also can …

    I was thinking about turning the spawners’ power level up compared to the other layers anyway. As for those starting in the Shadow World, well, we can force minimum distances.

    Spawned independents can be made powerful but they can’t be made smart. More powerful wandering berserk groups will only increase the randomness of the game and bring havoc upon the AI that already has problems dealing with the existing roaming sites. And if you’d make them only roam the shadow realm the smartest thing any player could do is to avoid it (hence making the whole mod obsolete in a sense).

    Well, especially if their world is so hard to live in, they’ll take anything that might make it a bit easier, or that gives them an advantage over their enemies.

    This assumes 1) that those techniques will actually really give them an advantage compared to relying on whatever it is they developed/adopted during their time in the shadow realm 2) that the people from athla realize this (without sufficient knowledge of the shadow realm or the abilities of its inhabitants) and 3) that they(the ppl from athla) can convince them(the ppl living in the shadow realm) that this is the case.

    If you make the spawned units too powerful the game will be less about defeating your opponents but rather about surviving the independents (which also means you are much more luck-dependant, not the best player would win but the one who gets attacked the least by the independents).

    Minimum distance is going to be our friend here.

    Also, we could have any native’s race’s support have an ability like “Disrupt Shadow” that basically works like a kind of Turn Undead. Would make sense for any non-demon aligned units to develop abilities like that.

    How does minimum distance help with this? If your army gets crushed just because that independent doom stack happened to come along I’d call that a very lucky victory for the opponent.

    That aside the disrupt shadow ability sounds like an interesting idea, though it would have to be discussed which units it would affect and whether all (non-class) racial support units should get it per default or not.

    About the wizard king class, I really like the idea of it, but I’m not sure if this is something that should be planned as a fixed part of the shadow realm mod or rather an optional idea to later expand the base mod (if time, motivation and resources allow it).

    edit: @dr_k: Afaik the editor doesn’t actively load content from mods in the dependency list. My racial heritage mod was too big for my machine in the end (I could hardly finish it), but editing a mod where it is in the dependency list is no problem (I did this to make some tests, since as I said I could only edit the original mod with much patience in the end, so many crashs ://).

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238873

    Eomolch
    Member

    Just pointing out: Yes. If you don’t destroy them very early and defenders and roaming units are set to Many, Treasure Sites can definitely be fun there, and dangerous.

    Succubi, Archon Titans, Bone Dragons and Dread Reapers can show up much earlier than you’d hope!

    But they are from roaming sites, not dwellings 😛

    But you have a point, admittedly, you could make the spawners so powerful they can crush everything. However like I tried to point out earlier there is a difference between that kind of threat and an actual opponent who coordinates his troops and has his own goals. Also roaming sites have another big problem: If you make the spawned units too powerful the game will be less about defeating your opponents but rather about surviving the independents (which also means you are much more luck-dependant, not the best player would win but the one who gets attacked the least by the independents).

    In the end this is not going to be my decision but I can only tell you, that the impact of the mod on the game, if you make the shadow realm factions races (in the way I suggested) will be a lot higher than if you make them dwellings. And letting that chance go in a project of that scale would be a mistake imho. It is about the incentive to go to the shadow layer and also about the frequency that the new units could be used by the player (e.g. I still didn’t build a single unit in the new sea-dwelling outside of the campaign).

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238866

    Eomolch
    Member

    I kind of disagree here – first of all, no race should be inherently good or evil.

    Well for one thing, the way they were presented in AoWSM I’d say shadow demons are inheretnly evil and Archons inherently good. Also it isn’t even neccessary that every single one of them is evil or good, as long as their leaders are. E.g. in Lord of the Rings I wouldn’t say all Orcs are evil (though probably most of them) but they still were regarded evil since they served Sauron. But ok, this isn’t even too important, it would only matter for the question whether all units of those races should be dedicated to good/evil or not.

    These races as you describe them all sound very much like dwellings with a migrate option.

    No, more like dwellings with a migrate and settler option, racial research (which replaces ordinary class research) that can be picked as starting towns. Especially the “eligible for the player/AI” part makes a huge difference imho.

    Secondly, when the shadowworld closed, it was not really ruled by a single faction like the first time it opened up. There was quite a lot of war between what we could call the Athla Alliance and the Shadow Demons.

    I am aware of this, which is why I proposed one good and one evil faction.

    As for the threat that you describe, it could easily be achieved with some dwellings and spawners that have the same units – where the dwellings could represent those parts of a faction that actually can be pursuaded to work for you, and the spawners as the globally hostile factions.

    I strongly have to disagree here. C’mon did you really ever have a RMG (so non-scripted) game where dwellings posed any threat to any one? As for unit spawners, they are generally(!) only nuisances and only pose a real threat in combination with an ongoing war between players. They can’t (without heavy scipting) simulate a real attacking force since they don’t act as a unit and lack the advantages of diplomacy and the actual use of cities they might be able to conquer.

    I believe it’s possible to exclude combinations. However, I don’t really want to. Knowledge will leak across soon enough. Also, if a Athlan Dreadnought has a Shadow Elf city, how hard can it be to put muskets in their hands?

    Not sure what you mean with your first argument (“Knowledge will leak across soon enough”). As for the second point, I will admit that it could make sense to allow a class-overlap from a lore-point of view. But it can also make sense to disallow it. After all it isn’t hard to imagine that the inhabitants of the shadow plane may only want to rely on the things that made them survive there. In that case convincing them of another ideology or the use of different technology may be too difficult to achieve, it could be a process that takes years or decades and I’d argue one AoW3 match doesn’t last that long.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238858

    Eomolch
    Member

    That was the plan. And I wasn’t planning on making the Possessed property being removable.

    I still have to work out details like the when a unit dies in the same battle, but I’m pretty confident I can do that.

    Yes, possessed shouldn’t be removable.

    Also, if you find a solution to the mentioned problem I would be very interested to hear it. (And if I find one I’ll also let you know.)

    —————————–
    As for the topic itself, first of all, I love the prospect of introducing a fully fleshed-out shadow realm to the game =)

    Now when it comes to possible races or dwellings, as much as I loved the old archons and dark elves, I think their possible new unit line-ups should corespond to the fact that they have been living in the shadow realm for hundreds of years by now (and I don’t just say this to make the dark elf stuff from my racial heritage mod fit in with this project :P) . Actually I could imagine even more drastic changes, like a race/dwelling consisting of the descendents of a mixed race of archons and syrons or dark elves actually allying with (or even controlling) the shadow demons. After all there is no way to know they would stay loyal to Meandor over hundreds of years, especially since it was his “fault” that they are stuck in the shadow realm.

    So e.g. there could the two factions: Archons+Syrons (or rather their descendants) vs. Shadow Demons+Dark Elves. And when it comes to implementing them I would actually like them to be races with a fixed (unique) class. So they would have cities with normal racial unit and building line-ups but when you choose to play them you can only select “their” class (and vice versa no other race can choose those classes to play). This would make sense lore-wise since classes are something for “ordinary” races on athla and it would also make sense content-wise since it would keep the neccessary amount of work at an acceptable level (only racial units and 3-4 “class” units per faction). However I’m not sure if it is actually possible to forbid the classes for the normal races (and normal classes for those shadow realm races) but even if it can’t be “hardcoded” through modding tools one could make the implicit assumption that people aren’t allowed to choose those combinations. In other words, ppl using the mod would have to know that if they select them their game will crash/not work properly.

    Maybe I should give some more justification for that idea. That the new races/factions shouldn’t be implemented like the 9 existing ones is something probably no one would argue with since the effort needed to do this would be insane. The reason why I am against dwellings as well however (though naturally there could be some other creative dwellings in the shadow realm) is that when you think of the shadow realm and opening the shadow gates again you wan’t to see a lurking threat waiting to destroy athla, an epic battle between good and evil and dwellings can’t provide such sense of danger or superior forces ready to invade (or protect) this world. Maybe in a heavily-scripted campaign but certainly not in the RMG. There it can only work with actual players (human or AI) controlling an empire with cities populated by the population of the shadow realm races. (And the ability to migrate other cities to their race!)

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by  Eomolch.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #238840

    Eomolch
    Member

    I’ve spend some thought on the subject of the unit, and if we don’t mind Incarnates losing their medals upon extraction/possession, I think we can make the unit.

    I’m actually very curious as to how this would work. I tried making something like it a while ago and all the combinations that I came up with ended up crashing the game or throwing errors, so I moved onto other things.

    My guess (since he mentions the loss of XP) is that he wants to do it like this: Have possess give the possessed unit a unit porperty group which gives the unit the ‘possess ability’ and also an on unit death ability that will immediately resurrect and transform the unit into an incarnate. This also means the possess ability has to kill (and disintegrate) the unit using it, hence the loss of XP.

    Funny enough this is basically what I am trying to do myself at the moment. However there is still one big problem I couldn’t resolve yet: If the possessed unit dies during the battle it became possessed in, the resurrected and transformed incarnate will belong to the player the possessed unit originally belonged to. This must be because when the unit dies it looses the mind controlled property, so the corpse’s owner is the original owner of the unit. I had hoped the option to convert resurrect (like for true resurrect) could fix this but it doesn’t seem that way :/

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