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  • in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #291366


    I was mostly referring to the list that spells like Sanctified Sites use to determine which sites get a bonus. I presume this is separate to the actual site definition which I expect is what the RMG uses to scale the amount it creates.

    Shrine of the Relentless Lich is the grim reaper looking one. And I’m referring to the list that those spells check. Our addition to that list is missing Mana Node – SR.

    I said that Glass Furnace and Celestial Pool are unclear for two reasons.
    1) DLC3 broke the mold a bit by adding Shrine to the Relentless Lich (probably an error) and Well of Souls (I think this one is actually defined as a treasure site for generation) to the “Treasure Sites” list.
    2) We should consider the balance consequences. Eg the Glass Furnace pretty much replaces the Magma Forge, which means we are replacing a Treasure Site with a Visit Site.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #291272


    We might be able to get the thread copied to, or we could just move our stuff to the Paradox forum as well.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #280506


    Hi Gloweye!
    When you are done making changes to the SR RMG (or if you are done already), could you please give me access to the source so I can calculate what our changes have done to income rates?
    I promise not to cast Corrupt the Source. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Also, are these forums getting really flaky for anyone else? Some days I can’t get it to load at all.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #280481


    Good timing lordoflinks!
    I’d just tried doing a simple palette swap on the lava texture used by Magma Forges, with the intention of having it a cyan colour to be used as the Glass Furnace appearance.
    The texture and material were correct in the content editor, but when I replaced the lava material with the cyan one on the model tab for it, it goes green instead.
    So if you could have a look at doing something similar, and seeing what happens when you try it, that would be good.

    There are a few other things that you could look at that I think could do with some attention. (Someone intervene if they think I’m overstepping my bounds with these suggestions.)
    Not sure what you are like with particle effects, but I’ve noted this: The Particle Swirl on the Shadow Gate Teleporter is a bit over the top. Possibly the wrong blend method is being used. It appears to be Matte when it should be Lighten? Apparently we are intending to only use the visual effect when a gate is used (if that is possible), but it could be worth a look.

    If you are feeling more into modelling: Shadow Weed could do with standing out more. Possibly a colour alteration to the flowers, or larger flowers? I think the issue here is that our Shadow Realm is much more vibrant that the original was, so the small purple flowers don’t stand out as much.

    Probably the hardest one to do anything about: Shadow Void looks like tar. Not sure what we can do with it. Can we replace or alter the animation of the waves? Replacing with the swirls from AoW:SM would be optimal. Second place would be to replace with a star field. Alternatively we could slow down the animation speed of the waves so they donโ€™t look as liquid. Also at times, I wonder if it would look better if it was lowered relative to the surrounding terrain. I’m not sure what the physics of the void actually is, but the previous shadow realm looked like ground just floating in space. The current one looks like the void is some sort of souplike material in pools on the ground. (That probably sounds harsher than I intend it. Overall I think the Shadow Realm terrain looks great.)

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #280445


    I just tried doing a hue rotation on the lava texture used by the Magma Forge to make a blue/cyan version. This works fine.
    As soon as I replace the lava texture in the model, it turns green.
    The texture looks blue. The material looks blue. When added to the model its green.
    I don’t get it. :/

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #280425


    Yes the skill does apply to Shrines inside your city’s domains.

    I don’t think it would be too off to have some placeholder models. I’m sure people will forgive some reused models and it means we have something we can point at should a modeller suddenly appear.

    I’m raising it now as I have already looked at the site balancing a bit and know that it will come up as saying we are short on Knowledge sources. Mainly due to the lack of Shrines. Also it doesn’t really matter if we add more sites before balancing existing ones, as doing it the other way around means balancing the sites twice anyway.

    Anyway, no hurry. I’m just putting it out for discussion.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #280403


    I think we should add a couple of Shrines for extra visit sites and the Shrines of Unlife skill.
    A quick brainstorming gives:

    Shrine of Remembrance: Built to honour those who died in the Shadow Demon war. Visiting gives the party Shadow Demon Slayer and Strong Will (possibly need a weaker version) for a few turns.

    Shrine of Athla: Built to remind those who guard the Gates what they are defending. Visiting gives the Flowers of Solace effect for a few turns and restores movement.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280401


    I’m not sure what definition or balance reasons for the Treasure Site bonuses were, but it looks like anything that is permanent but not a Visit Site is a Treasure Site. So Shrines, Plants, Hearts and recruitment/spawning sites don’t seem to count. Except that DLC3 adds Shrine to the Relentless Lich and Well of Souls to this list. The Shrine is in the Visit Site category in the package while the Well of Souls is in the Treasure Site category. It appears that Mana Node – SR is missing from the additional Treasure Sites list.
    Based on those rules, Shadow Weed and Heart of Shadows should not count as Treasure Sites. Glass Furnace and Celestial Pool are unclear as to whether they should count or not.
    Possibly not for this thread, but I think we should add a couple of Shrines for Shrines of Unlife to work off, and to bump up the Visit sites.

    I think we should just drop Maelstrom if we aren’t having any water. Its of no use without water anyway.

    I had cleared an Artica and an Arachna Forgotten Throne and got no rewards. And failed a Mab one. Hang on, these are linked to 1 of 3 different adventure sets which then link to one reward set anyway… I’ve never tried to mess with these before, but I think the problem might be that it is set to give 0 skills and 0 items.

    With Forgotten Thrones giving bonuses that don’t display on the strategic map, we should add them to their description.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280394


    Okay, Flowrock Quarries (supposed to) are generated in the Shadow Realm, as are Magma Forges (not supposed to).

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280389


    Hrm, adding every damage channel to a unit, even for one turn could be a bit exploitable.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280387


    Me never remembering to build armies is a bug with me, not the mod…

    I got the new game crash without changing the mods at all. Do we need to press restore to default every time we start a new map?

    Grabbing Shadow Weed to counter Shadow Sickness appears to be adding every damage channel to a unit’s melee attack for the rest of that turn. Unsure it real or just a display error in the unit details.

    For the additions to city improvement yields from RG upgrades, you need to add them to the structure’s descriptions. They aren’t automatically added. So if nobody has made the modifications to the Palaces to display the extra casting points, it will give casting points but never display on the tooltip.

    Good point about the Shadow Weed clusters for when you have multiple stacks. I haven’t tried a non Shadow Walking race in the Shadow Realm yet.

    I meant the Race: Draconian page/description in the ToW. It doesn’t list Shadow Walker.

    Actual Gold Mines, not incorrectly labelled Gemstone Mines are still being generated in the Shadow Realm. Also, its the Foundry from Decodence (I presume) being spawned in the Shadow Realm that seems out of place. Its possible someone could have stolen Dreadnaught tech and built an illegal Foundry in the Shadow Realm, but it seems unlikely and off theme.

    Didn’t record the size or quest that rewarded me a Black Knight. Didn’t know it made a difference sorry.

    The Forge of Dreams was originally proposed as Production/Knowledge but seemed to have been added to the wiki as a copy of the Gemstone Mine.

    The button you have to press to trigger the Celestial Pool’s healing ability reads “Undefined: Trigger”.

    Gemstone Mines and Glass Furnaces are not getting a benefit from Sanctified Sites. Hrm and neither are Mana Nodes in the Shadow Realm or the Celestial Pool. Seems to work for Surface and Shadow Realm Water/Creation Nodes though, so maybe there is a bug in the base game stopping plain Mana Nodes from counting as Treasure Sites for those spells.

    Archon Forts and Hollow Groves are giving no yields. Ah, these are listed as To Be Confirmed on the wiki page.

    Sorry for not being clearer with some of those.

    I have a couple more:
    Willbreaker Hoard does not stop spawning when you have killed all the non Willbreaker units. Other similar spells do and if you don’t have some very mobile units in your army, you can’t win the battle.

    Forgotten Thrones don’t seem to give rewards for clearing them.

    I have yet to see an Archon Dwelling, Warband Camp or Larva Pool (Though I have seen a city get captured by a Shadow Demon Lord, so those might be appearing rarely). I’ve also not seen any water in the Shadow Realm yet, so no Maelstroms. Nor have I seen any Crystal Trees, Flowrock Quarries or Vaults of Knowledge. I have however had Great Farms and Wells of Souls. I haven’t fully explored my surface layer yet (Islands generation) but I haven’t seen a single Oyster Reef yet.

    I’ve got some Arctic terrain in the Shadow Realm, but as its a 3 hex wide spread around a Forgotten Throne, I suspect Arctica put it there. Oddly, I’ve got a single tile of Temperate with a Gold Mine on it as well.

    While I haven’t exhausted my research options, Shadow Weed Decoction has not appeared yet.

    I think I might be able to do a few minor graphical tweaks, but that is obviously not a priority at the moment.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280368


    Discovered a major bug: I never remember to build up my armies and get distracted by exploring… Also I had all the generation settings set to random and I think it had decided on minimal everything, so that wasn’t a good test of stuff. So I started a new map with the settings on Average. Doing so caused a crash:

    [19:42:11]Generating random level with seed: 3529862781.
    [19:44:22]RMG Zone Settings: Land (Zones)
    [19:44:22]RMG Terrain Settings: Land (Terrain)
    [19:44:22]RMG Structure Settings: Land (Structure)
    [19:44:22]RMG Zone Settings: Shadow Realm (Zones)
    [19:44:22]RMG Terrain Settings: Shadow Realm (Terrain)
    [19:44:22]RMG Structure Settings: Shadow Realm (Structure)
    [19:44:22][ERROR]Assertion failed: “pType!=NULL”
    [19:44:35]Message: Can’t assign a NULL type!
    [19:44:35]d:\source.aow.steam\creator\gc\source\hexworld\materialworld\GCMaterialHexCellData.cpp(155): (click to open)
    [19:44:35][ERROR]Assertion failed: “false”
    [19:44:40]Message: Meandor’s name be praised! The game just crashed. A mini dump file was created at C:\Users\Simon\Documents\My Games\AoW3\Logs\minidump0719_1825.dmp. Give the .dmp, .pdb and .exe files to the programmers.
    [19:44:40]d:\source.aow.steam\aow\game\source\PC/MainPC.cpp(74): (click to open)

    Have had a few other errors, though I suspect the last two might not be mod related:

    [14:57:24][ERROR][HUD_TomeOfWonders]Unit Ability Throw Spear is invalid: Event has no targeters attached!
    [14:57:26][ERROR][HUD_TomeOfWonders]Unit Ability Throw Spear is invalid! Event is invalid!
    [14:57:26][ERROR][HUD_TomeOfWonders]Structure Shadow Gate invalid! No Icon!
    [14:57:26][ERROR][HUD_TomeOfWonders]Structure Hollow Grove invalid! No Icon!
    [14:57:26][ERROR][HUD_TomeOfWonders]Structure Haunted Inn invalid! No Icon!
    [14:57:26][ERROR][HUD_TomeOfWonders]Structure Glass Furnace invalid! No Icon!

    [16:09:08][QUEST] Trying to generate absorb quest with value of 153
    [16:09:08]Generated global quest: TDomainStructureQuestGenerator
    [16:09:08]No valid quest generator to generate quest.
    [16:09:08][QUEST] Could not generate the quest
    [16:09:08][ERROR]Assertion failed: “false”
    [16:09:08]Message: Cannot retrieve quest difficulty, no interaction option available for this city
    [16:09:08]d:\source.aow.steam\aow\aowc\source\ageofwonders\strategicmap\entities\cities\citysupport\IndependentCityPlayerInfo.cpp(430): (click to open)
    [16:09:08][QUEST] Trying to generate absorb quest with value of 0

    [16:38:18][ERROR]Assertion failed: “marker != NULL”
    [16:38:18]Message: Trying to update unexisting marker!
    [16:38:18]d:\source.aow.steam\aow\aowc\source\ageofwonders\gamedata\quests\QuestFXHolder.cpp(123): (click to open)

    Here is a huge pile of notes I’ve collected since my last post:
    Shadow Void looks like tar. Not sure what we can do with it. Can we replace or alter the animation of the waves? Replacing with the swirls would be optimal. Second place would be to replace with a star field. Alternatively we could slow down the animation speed of the waves so they don’t look as liquid.
    “Gold” Mines giving too much income and there is a space missing in the description. “Adds +10 <gold>+10<mana>” Should be “Adds +10 <gold> +10<mana>”. (Although Tombs have a rather compressed description as well. But I don’t like them either.)
    Do non Shadow Elf races dislike Shadow Realm? Its not stated in the ToW. And doesn’t appear to be the case. Did we drop this, or is it just not implemented yet?
    Unsure about the naming of the “Vulnerable to Shadow Sickness” effect that appear to be applying the stat reduction. Can we change it to say “Shadow Sickness”, have it as a red name (does that require it to be a specific duration temp effect). Also the description should explicitly state that the debuff is currently being applied. I realise there may be game limitations here, but perhaps the “Vulnerable” effect could apply a second effect being more explicit.
    Particle Swirl on the Shadow Gate Teleporter is a bit over the top. Possibly the wrong blend method is being used. It appears to be Matte when it should be Lighten?
    Shadow Weed doesn’t need to be in patches of three.
    We are going to need a different name for the ‘Living’ Archon Titan. Possibly ‘Living Archon Titan’? Or should we just rename the undead one?
    Gold Mines exist in the Shadow Realm.
    Hollow Grove defenders seem quite tough for a Legendary: Horned God, Hunter Spider Queen, Vampire Spider Queen and Mature Shock Serpent.
    Draconians are immune to Shadow Sickness, but this is not documented in game.
    Shadow Weed could do with standing out more. Possibly a colour alteration to the flowers, or larger flowers?
    Shadow Elf Champion Economic does not reduce the cost of Necromancer’s Dark Tower.
    Shadow Demon Slayer doesn’t have the damage type icon in the description.
    Shadow Elf Deity Economic does not add the +10 casting points to the Palace of the Perished description.
    Wizard Tower Ruins in the shadow realm had a battlefield that just looked like a campsite? Okay, that appears to be normal.
    Infused have Armoured, but the flavour text says they are unarmoured.
    SE Builder is missing the Build Water Fortress ability.
    Walking over Shadow Weed with a Shadow Sick unit gives it an extra +1 phys/blight/fire/frost/spirit/shock damage on its Melee Strike until next turn.
    Glass Armoury seems rather cheap.
    Can we change the magma in the Glass Furnace from orange to blue? They look rather like Magma Forges.
    Had a SE city offer me an Orc Black Knight as a reward.
    Unoras Tasklor looks weird and creepy. Like evil clown Santa…
    Foundries in the Shadow Realm doesn’t make much sense.
    Forge of Dreams has incorrect income: +10 Gold/Mana.
    Celestial Pool list Undefined Trigger as the usage.
    Gemstone Mines and Glass Furnaces don’t count as Treasure Sites.
    Various new structures don’t seem to have yields at all (though some count as Treasure Sites for class bonuses.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #280358


    I’d like to raise a couple of things.

    1: Shadow Elves like Dense Vegetation but don’t get Forestry. High Elves and Halflings both like Dense Vegetation and get Forestry as innate. Obviously adding Forestry to the racial properties is a potential balance issue. Perhaps only give Forestry to Irregular units or some other compromise?

    Also, it seems a little odd that SEs dislike Blighted and Underground given their heritage (Dark Elves liked Darkland(?) and Underground, had Poison Protection and Cave Crawling). The Racial Governance option removes the Underground dislike and for some reason Arctic. Perhaps that should be Blighted instead?

    Alternatively, we could rethink which terrains they like and dislike.

    2: The current leader specialisation picks are:
    Air 3.
    Earth 3.
    Water 3.
    Fire 1.
    Destruction 5.
    Creation 1.
    Wild 4.
    Shadowborn 1.
    Grey Guard 1.
    Keeper of the Peace 0.
    Explorer 2.
    Expander 1.
    Partisan 2.
    Is the bias toward Destruction and Wild, and away from Creation and Keeper deliberate? Not that any of the other races aren’t biased. I just wanted to check if our bias is intentional.

    in reply to: Prevent Building a Unit? #280357


    Since you actually have to enable the building of a unit, how about just not make them buildable in the first place?

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280275


    I’ve got a Raven Home in my current Shadow Layer.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #280265


    One big topic to work on is finalizing the sites and in particular balancing the distribution of income.

    I’ll try to get back on to that soon. At the moment it looks like the generation has some issues that will need cleaning up first, but that isn’t too big a deal as I’ll need to look into that to properly calculate the income differences.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280189


    Yes I did mean Touched. I realised some time later while out walking…
    I’m now giving Meandor a test with a Shadow Realm layer.
    He’s lost a bit of weight…

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280183


    Yep the attack of the Succubi and the removal of Inflict Shadow Sickness from Bards is good. If I can trust the ToW, which I assume so since it is generated from the unit tables.

    Re Forestry and Irregulars:
    Happy to defer all unit balance decisions, as that really isn’t something I’m good with. However, both other races that like Dense Vegetation also get Forestry as innate. So for mechanical consistency and flavour it makes sense that all SE would have Forestry. But then since they also get Shadow Walker as a major unique ability I limited my suggestion to selected Irregular units only.
    I notice that the Tigran Cheetah unit does have Forestry not from a racial source.
    And Monster Hunter and Scoundrel units do occasionally get additional racial variations. I don’t think we need to be a strict as requiring a movement related precedent.
    Perhaps Infused could lose Sprint? Just throwing out ideas.
    Nice to see that all Monster Hunters get Shadow Demon Slayer.

    Re Lightning Sprites:
    Being able to summon them, and then later possibly using the difficult Static Discharge ability is possibly overcomplicated. I’m not sure they need something as complicated/powerful as the Static Discharge ability. But this is getting into unit balance, so I have no strong opinions here.

    Re Exploit Shadows:
    Units with Exploit Shadows:
    Elite Arcane Archer T1.
    Elite Nightguard T1.
    Veteran Phalanx T3 Warlord only.
    Getting the rank might not be hard. Finding units that actually get Exploit Shadows is a little harder.

    Re City Names:
    I had none of those names. I’m guessing the new list isn’t linked to the race.

    Re Invoke Darkness thingy:
    I probably forgot what we decided, and the “Darkness” in the name made me think of Black Bolts and Death Ray…

    I also forgot to mention that SE units have 3 hex sight above ground, but 4 hex sight below ground. This might be normal for other races and I haven’t noticed it before though. Okay, this is normal but its still weird. XD

    And an extra: SE Apprentices are back to Fairy Fire with the correct medal adjustments. Can’t check Succubi until I play a Rogue.


    Yeah no clue about that sorry, I don’t actually do maps.
    Possibly some way was found to alleviate the issue a bit.


    Try monitoring your ram usage as you try to load it. The map editor uses much more ram than the game does for some reason, and you might be running out, or hitting the 32bit limit.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – closed beta tests #280160


    Well I’m getting a small issue. It isn’t generating a Shadow Realm layer. I’ve poked it in a few different ways, including noticing that my Decodence RMG integration wasn’t updating to the latest version. So I’ve now ensured both Decodence mods are up to date. I’m using the SR mods from the two .taf files in the Exported Mod Files folder. No other mods active. All I can see in the debug log that looks vaguely relevant is:
    [ERROR]Couldn’t parse decodentabilities@decodence and theme in rmg@charlatan
    [ERROR]Couldn’t parse decodentabilities@structures in rmg@gloweye
    Was there something I needed to do to get it to generate a shadow realm layer?

    Other than that, I can confirm that Shadow Elf city quests are now giving Shadow Elf units.
    ToW says that SE Succubi have Call Forth Darkness.
    ToW says that SE Bards have Shadow Walker Aura, but I haven’t tested it.

    Other notes (which probably repeat many already known things):
    I really like the flavour texts on the units that have them so far. ๐Ÿ™‚
    Other than a completely missing Shadow Layer, I haven’t had any crashes or obvious errors.
    Icons obviously need a big clean up and we need a ton of new icons. All the unit icons have incorrect alpha channels set.
    Shadow Elves have a very diverse range of skin tones. Light teal, dark teal, some that look like High Elves, others that look more like Syrons? The leader/hero skin tone is lighter than I expected. Also Kyridarion the Shielder appears to have normal elf skin tone.
    Many SE units just seem to glow for no reason. Shadow Realm crystal equipment glowing is fine, but some units appear to have glowing skin.
    Exterminators do not have red swords (flavour text says they still use blood red swords). <Major Bug!> ๐Ÿ˜›
    I think a few SE units should have Forestry, since that is the races favourite terrain. Scouts, Touched, Monster Hunters and Scoundrel come to mind.
    Does anything have Shadow Running? I would expect at least SE Scouts to have it.
    I suspect Lightning Sprites are not working as intended. Getting them into melee range and having a full turn of movement to use Static Discharge seems almost impossible. Not sure the cooldown on summoning them should be 1 turn, but that really depends on how useful they are when they are working properly.
    Also, Invoke/Call Forth Shadows will hit Lightning Sprites, which is a bit of an unexpected antisynergy between Support units.
    No SE starts with Exploit Shadows and only a few gain it at Elite, with 1? getting it at Veteran. That seems way to rare to use. Not sure a complex combo mechanic that only adds a little extra damage should be locked behind a RG upgrade.
    Something wrong with the city name list? I ended up with more than one city called Allassa.
    Should Call Forth/Invoke Darkness be Frost and Blight, rather than Frost and Physical? And do we really need two similar abilities?

    Edit: I had a couple of underground starts with no structures around my starting city. I think something is broken somewhere.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  HousePet.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by  HousePet.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – alpha tests #280043


    Okay, I’m missing the Shadow Realm RMG files. All I can find in the dropbox is a .taf.
    Also, I can’t remember how you trick the forums into letting you edit posts, so sorry about the spam here.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – alpha tests #280042


    Nevermind, was confused by the “Map Editor Content” bit in the name… >_>

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – alpha tests #280041


    I am finally available to help again.
    I just had to:
    Deal with an update to another game meaning I needed to critically update one of my mods, and had to do some balancing and other bug fixes while there.
    Go on a small holiday.
    Deal with all the other silly things life throws at you.

    So I went to fire up a RMG game to have at look at what you had all achieved and discovered that AoW refuses to acknowledge that Decodence is installed…
    Tried reinstalling Decodence, but it insists its not there.

    in reply to: Reducing the length of rapids in random maps #278352


    Well done on finding a solution.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #273591


    @housepet: what do you think about the other questions here ?

    I presume the question about the Umbral Weaver is just to make it clear which is the legacy unit? Surely Umbral Weaver Charioteer, not Chariot for the new one. Or just rename the old one to Umbral Weaver Old?

    Shadow Gates underground seems fine to me.

    For the Forgotten Throne MCUs, I just can’t see Artica, Nimue or Yaka using Elder Eldritch Abominations. But I could see them using something like Ice Dragons, King Serpents and Phoenixes.

    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #273558


    Why a detrimental effect for the Forge of Dreams battlefield?
    Wouldn’t something that improves the weaponry of the guardians make more sense?

    Also, I’m not necessarily against a MCU from the Forgotten Throne. It just seems odd for the Thrones of certain Wizards to allow summoning an Elder Eldritch.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by  HousePet.
    in reply to: Shadow Realm – Brainstorm #273408


    Celestial Pool
    So the majority opinion seems to be to remove all the healing and instead add a Meditate effect (e.g. until next battle like for most Shrines). Can it stack with the normal Meditate?

    I’d keep a healing effect as well. Meditate effects are interesting, but randomness can lead to uselessness. Also, it might not stack with normal Meditate.

    in reply to: No boat displayed if but one crew can swim #273335


    Cos its a free ride if they hop on a ship and sit on a deckchair. ๐Ÿ˜€

    in reply to: AoW: Planetfall – Collected Knowledge #273334


    Had a random thought about them pondering whether to have an underground layer:

    How about doing a proper underwater system instead?

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