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  • in reply to: (Possible) new tournament #210708


    Ack! Sorry, stuff went down. I’m busy tomorrow but free Sunday and Tuesday onward. (Mondays/Sundays are always going to be busy for me, possibly Fridays.) Is there still time or no?

    As an aside, the “stuff” I mentioned includes a brief (1-2 day) internet outage, dog dying, and then copious amounts of tabletop gaming in the aftermath of said dog dying.

    If the person that I’m up against needs to know my Steam ID: Meeky, just as it is on here. I can discuss stuff there. And stuff.


    This will sound weird, because I’ve talked about hating the Lucky mechanic for halflings in the past, but I honestly take GeorgiSR’s stance here: morale and critical fumbles and critical successes and disjunction having a risk factor to it all make the game MORE strategic.

    I’m going to spend the next few paragraphs using a recent game I was in as an example.


    For all these luck-based mechanics in the game, I find the games I lose are the games I get too cocky with, not the games where the RNG hated me. For instance, last night I actually had an opponent by the ropes; I’d marched into their biggest city as my Goblin Dreadnought and was going to turn it into a forward outpost. I had a solid defense force: two trebuchets, some musketeers, a swarm darter, engineers, three heroes, untouchables, I think 1-2 blight doctors… It would have been a real terror to invade at that point in the game, and it was a couple turns away from my opponent’s capital.

    But guess what? I got cocky. I saw my opponent had a couple stacks sitting around nearby and I was really sure I could beat those stacks. So, I charged out and I lost. That decided the game, because my capital city turned Rebellious between Incite Revolt and having lost my leader and a battle. It wasn’t luck. It was all my doing. That’s how things go when I lose, usually.

    If it weren’t for good strategic decisions on my opponent’s part – such as harassing me and casting Incite Revolt on my city and beating me up in little fights – I could have kept on going after that big defeat. But good strategic thinking on their part and bad strategic thinking on my part is what turned the tables around.

    In most games, the RNG is just a factor I need to work around or take advantage of. It changes the pace of the game enough that every game is different, and because every game is different your tactics will usually change just a slight bit. For instance, in that same game I got a Nightshade Fairy really early on. When my Rogue opponent sent Lesser Shadow Stalkers to harass my cities, I used the Nightshade Fairy to take out the harassers. It worked amazingly well; it was a fluke, but that Nightshade Fairy seriously changed the game for me. It didn’t win me the game because I still made that fatal strategic mistake, and just having it in an army wouldn’t have saved, but using it to play whack-a-mole in my home turf was just as huge.


    So, let’s talk about Disjunct. Disjunct doesn’t hide the fact that it’s random as Hell. Baseline Disjunction has a 50/50 chance of failure and costs a lot of mana and CP; it also happens to have those critical chances. So, I use it sparingly. If I feel that I can’t win a fight without breaking a spell, I’ll do it. However, the RNG likes to play games with me, so I try to avoid it as much as possible.

    If you’re casting Disjunct in a battle and it somehow ends the game for you, chances are you were gambling way too much on that battle, or that you just didn’t play well enough and thus didn’t wipe out enough of the opposing army to continue playing. Losing a single big battle doesn’t decide the game; losing the big battle by a massive margin DOES. So, while Disjunct could possibly put you over that edge, chances are you were disadvantaged enough already that it was just icing on the cake your opponent ate.

    Like GeorgiSR said:

    That is real life. Not always it goes by the book and the price is high. There is a metaphor “If you are scared from the dark – don’t go in the forest when night falls”. If you are afraid of critical failure – don’t disjunct – find another way. Higher risks always are awarded with higher reward BECUSE you’ve risked more. People should learn to accept that such bad things are POSSIBLE to happen and should plan ahead.

    Unless going for a Xanatos gambit will REALLY pay off, I generally try to play things safe because the RNG hates me, and I do well enough considering that. I’m not amazing at the game, note, and recently got stomped HARD by some truly hardcore players, but I can tell what’s a safe tactic that WILL get a kill and what’s a gambit that could get me a couple kills but could also fail to work properly. So… I don’t Disjunct much, and that’s that.

    Honestly, the only time RNG has ever lost me a game is when I fight (or play as) halflings. Swear to God, I hate their racial mechanic, and it hates me.

    in reply to: (Possible) new tournament #203616


    @gabthegab @meeky
    If you guys feel like it I would be happy to play classic turns as well. It just makes so much more sense to me instead of simultaneous where things depends more on how fast your clicks per second are.

    Maybe we can make it a little house rule for our group (:

    I’m in a separate group from you two, so that won’t work, but I’m happy to play practice games with folks. (Mostly because I’m in need of practice.)

    in reply to: (Possible) new tournament #203444


    Is there a Steam group or something similar being made so we can start communicating with the people we’ll be going up against? I pretty much want to bug the people I’m playing against about map settings.

    I’m hoping to request classic turns from the people I’ll be up against, basically. Obviously can play simultaneous, but I’d rather make my preference known.

    in reply to: Team multiplayer games #202973


    This idea honestly made me smile today.

    I want this feature. It just makes sense to me as a feature, period. I actually prefer Classic Turns if I can get games like that already (thanks to A) latency issues and B) avoiding all the complexities like stack splitting and the like).

    It’s also good on a teamplay level because you and your teammate can coordinate and move together (rather than in separate turns or as your enemies are moving). It feels right.

    Yeah, definitely going to voice a “yes please” to Team Classic Turns.

    in reply to: A bit of praise and a bribe? #201804


    Ouch, so he must’ve been in a bad position for him to fall in eight turns. he probably wanted you to make friends with him.

    At war on two fronts is usually bad, yeah.

    in reply to: If you had to pick one unit from each class… #201502


    Are there any additional rules about Tier of these units? Because if there are not I don’t see another sensible way than taking T4 from all classes as this roster.

    No, but it does mean you’d only be able to supplement your T4 choices with racial units from a single given race, meaning all of one race’s racial units + all the T4s available to you.

    I think that’d be a fairly rough game to reach the end with.

    Alright, t-0 is the cherub (best scout), t-1 a high elf hunter, t-2 a phantasm warrior, t-3 a deathbringer, t-4 a manticore rider, and the support a succubus.
    For dread, a musketeer with pointy ears.

    Yeah, Frostling Deathbringers are real nice, but High Elf hunters and musketeers together would definitely make for a nasty early game.

    in reply to: If you had to pick one unit from each class… #201330


    If I said a scoundrel from rogue, does that let me get both the shadow stalkers as well? 😛

    Nah, since we’re not assuming the player has a class here, just that they’re making a roster as a generic leader with a single race.

    in reply to: If you had to pick one unit from each class… #201326


    For me: since I normally play Goblins, I’d be sorely tempted to grab the Phalanx and Engineer, both of which are really good Goblin units for their tier. The Shadow Stalker is simply amazing, so there’s my Rogue pick; and the druids have access to all sorts of delicious spiders, so I’d probably say a Hunter Spider Queen would be a good choice (both because of the web and blight damage). The Eldritch Horror is really strong thanks to the AoE… And I suppose I’d grab the Evangelist (c’mon, CONVERSION) and the Eldritch Horror… And the Reaper makes a good second T4 with a different role in combat.

    in reply to: OK. Thats ridiculous #201284


    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Hellspirit wrote:</div>
    Hmm,try offering her a city or gold?

    I just offered half my empire. Nothing. =)

    “Meh. Your empire’s three times the size of mine and you’re offering me a massive chunk of it and money and mana and I could take this to turn around and betray you if I wanted, but you’re just not a powerful enough ally for me to align myself with. Nope. Noooooooooooooooooope.

    I imagine she’s lighting a cigar and wearing a trollface.


    On chainspears – most people, I think, have an idea of the lizards as being a more primitive people, and long chains imply a certain degree of industrialisation. A rope or other cord might be more realistic. That said, I’m not sure about how realistic this concept is in general – you’re potentially talking about managing to drag an entire unit in, or some large creature like a dragon.

    Personally, I’d be inclined to theme the lizardmen pikemen as hunters. Whether it’s underground behemoths like Kharaghs, swamp monsters, or leviathans of the deep, they rely on long spears (or, possibly, tridents: I know naga have them now, but if lizards do retain the aquatic theme, it makes sense) to keep the monster at bay while working on bringing it down.

    Oh, it’s definitely very unrealistic. I could not say “It would work IRL” with a straight face. I would, however, look at that ability being used and say “that is AWESOME!” Not the best criteria, of course… and I imagine coding it would be a challenge.

    That said, similar thrown attacks that do fit closer to what you said could work. For a more hunter-like theme, having them use a Short-ranged Throw Spear / Throw Hunting Spear attack could be good: it hits the enemy, the enemy takes some damage, but they ALSO have a high chance (high difficulty to resist) of being inflicted with Crippling Wounds. This fits the hunter theme: making prey unable to run away is pretty key.

    I think short range crippling/immobilizing attack which doesn’t consume action points would suit that theme well.

    …yeah, something like that, basically.

    As with Yarovit, I think tier 1 cavalry is probably going to be just a little too weak for cavalry. Cavalry have a lot of situational effects and upgrades that can affect them for good or ill – as Yarovit points out, tier 1 cavalry would be very fragile against polearm units. Conversely, upgrades like Thoroughbred Mounts and Side Arms would become quite powerful if they could be placed on a Tier 1 unit.

    It’s something I think COULD work, but would need to be carefully balanced… but it WOULD be pretty impossible to balance Side Arms with T1 cavalry. Hm.

    There’s nothing wrong with them being T2 cavalry, of course. I do think they’d work best in the “somewhat fragile but hard hitting” type of T2 cavalry; they’re riding FROGS for Pete’s sake. If someone manages to jab a frog with a pike, it should darned well hurt. Conversely, though should have solid mobility and capable of making their hits in places that matter.

    I’d probably say they should have Sprint to make up for their fragility. Unlike Phase, it lets them retain their charge bonus when hitting those units they want to get rid of; but also unlike Phase, it means they can’t hop onto walls necessarily and they can still be blocked by the placement of enemy units. Unicorn Riders would retain their specialty.

    But yes, Meeky, you might want to think about making some of the units more “cave” flavoured. The Frog Rider could be Axolotl rider (those pink amphibians with the huge gills) and a sort of semi-aquatic annelid for the Water Seer might be fab.

    Oh, yeah; there’s all sorts of awesome cave creatures to use if that route as taken (and as others have pointed out, that route doesn’t NEED to be taken, nor is it necessarily the most realistic approach).

    One of my favorites is the olm, a cave creature, but the reason I didn’t emphasize it all that much previously is because I HAVE seen that used in another video game as a major theme of a subterranean race. That said, they are immensely cool creatures.

    As an aside: another type of unit that could work is some sort of infantry or pike that “Drives” enemies forward. Basically, they charge at an enemy (or scare them, or knock them back somehow) and force them to back up, repositioning the enemy a certain number of spaces (somewhere between 2-4 tiles?). This would probably only force the enemy back in a directly opposite direction; meaning they’d hit any blocked tiles behind them if they exceeded their maximum distance for the knockback/whatever you call it. This could be used to force dangerous enemy melee units away or to force dangerous enemies into a position where they can be murderized.

    in reply to: CSI:Triumph (Easter Egg) #201219


    A random bubble filled with korean gibberish?

    Except it has to be interrupting everyone a lot as they try to say things, but yes.

    in reply to: CSI:Triumph (Easter Egg) #201216


    Do the spammers make an appearance on this map? They’re such a memorable part of the forum.

    in reply to: AI not upgrading leaders? Broken? #201155


    Actually, I wouldn’t mind getting the character as is, either.

    …Except that they’ll have no spellcasting bonuses because as a leader they normally don’t spend upgrade points on that, so if you get a level 12 sorcerer hero they’ll have spent 0 points on spells and I guess you’ll just have to use them as a martial guy?

    I’d rather spend the points myself.

    in reply to: Competitive Dwarven Strategies #201124


    By the way, some really good things a Dwarf player can do:

    * Dwarf Sorcerer, like I said, ain’t shabby. Those Forge Priests with Inflict Stun are really scary.

    * Dwarf and Dreadnought have a lot of synergy and should feel like a natural fit when you use them, especially since your amazing Crossbows can march into their first battle with 3 medals, making them very comparable to musketeers. (And yes, that is a GOOD thing.)

    * Dwarves with Shadowborn should also feel like a natural fit. I mean, really: lightning damage and lifestealing on Firstborn (meaning a 3 damage channel)? Lifestealing on the already durable Deep Guards and Axemen? Talk about TOUGH.

    * You ever hear of the old Draconian Fire Mastery explode-the-battlefield strategy? It works well with dwarves, too – really well. Dwarves have amazing racial units, and two of their units are fire immune… If you get into the late-late-late game, you also have Meteoric Armor and can make other units similarly explosion-resistant. Not shabby. Dwarf Dreadnought could net your armies +80% fire resistance at that point with the Dreadnought at the helm of the appropriate army.

    * Remember those amazing Crossbows we talked about? Air Adept > Seeker > Crossbow. Now you have what is effectively a musketeer that fires every round and has no penalties for range or line of sight. Ouch. Not something I’d use in every battle, but it’s a nice trick you can use when kiting or when you want to siege an enemy city.

    …And there’s a lot of other really great tactics with Dwarves, and they are often ONE of the best picks for a given class. Honestly, the idea that Dwarves are a lower-rung race is probably false. As others have said:

    I think dwarves are powerlevelwise in a good spot. They are always a good thing to have and better than average for any unit.

    Other races require some synergistic play to use ’em right, but dwarves are just flat-out GOOD.

    in reply to: Competitive Dwarven Strategies #201120


    So 200+ gold you earn in the last 10 turns is really too little for dwarf.

    Since he said current PBEM game, I think he means “in the last 10 turns I’ve played” rather than “the last 10 turns of the game.” Huge difference as we don’t know what turn his game is on.

    The Dwarves advantage right now is that they do seem to be the jack of all trades, master of none right now, although a case could be made that they are the best dreadnought (I personally think that with production bonuses, humans take the gold prize there). I suppose their biggest strength would be mountain combat, perhaps underground as well, and maybe as a garrison unit…

    …The only real unit I think that is really good is their T3 Firstborn, and even that I think has been overnerfed.

    I’m not saying that Dwarves should be “best at everything” (if there were I would expect that it would be more than 10% higher price per unit – more like 50%), but right now they do seem to be the sort of “jack of all trades”.

    Their crossbowman is incredibly solid – you can use it more aggressively and move it farther before shooting than you can an elven longbow. Their axemen are incredibly durable and are one of the only T1 units that can remain useful in a late game thanks to that – and they have DEMOLISHER, so if you’re going up against trebuchets or Dreadnoughts you can certainly do something useful with them. Their pikemen are durable enough that they can survive a charge by some T3 cavalry. Their Forge Priests are immune to fire, have a buff that heals, increases fire resistance AND increases damage dealt all at once (in a rather jack-of-all-trades way, yeah) AND are incredibly durable compared to other supports… Their Firstborn ARE incredibly good. Their boar chargers might be “okay” (they have as much defense as a Human Knight and 57 HP), but let’s face it: that’s a really, really good lineup.

    The dwarven synergy IS being a jack-of-all-trades, essentially. Where goblin synergy requires you to utilize your blight doctors and such, where tigrans take advantage of Bloodthirsty and Coup de Grace, dwarves are just some of the tankiest, toughest units around. As someone else said: they’re not flashy, their abilities may not look special, but with abilities like Defensive Strike and with high armor and high damage… They’re actually incredibly good at what they do, which is winning stand-up fights.

    Use the Crossbowman’s full movement+firing capabilities to its fullest advantage. Use Axemen to defensive strike enemies in the face to allow your other units a chance to move in. Hammer the Hell out of things with your Firstborn… Your Deepguards can take some heavy hits, your Forge Priests are amazingly dangerous if you play a Dwarf Sorcerer (and I do mean AMAZINGLY dangerous), and if all that’s left is a very tanky but slow cavalry unit and a prospector whose specialty is… prospecting… Well, I think you’ve got enough material to work with.

    Again: they’re durable enough that you can be aggressive, and if you’re able to be on the defensive you’re a horrifyingly tough nut to crack.

    And yeah, Humans may be the best Dreadnoughts potentially, but Dwarves have a ton of synergy with the class as well.

    One last thing I thought up…

    2. Their pikes are good survivability wise, but they are also more expensive. The Orcs have more damage, the Goblin pike has armor penetration, and the Draconian pike can charge. Tigran has Guard Breaker and Fire Shield, while Frostling can inflict Frostbite and has something similar to the Theocrat that absorbs damage.

    The orcish pikes are also extremely vulnerable both to arrows and to spells, moreso than any dwarf unit but the prospector, really (and they STILL have less resistance than every dwarf unit).

    The draconian pike can fly and has charge, yeah, but it honestly can’t stand up to as many attacks as other pikes – and shouldn’t be used like other pikes. It’s got a very different combat role.

    The Tigran pike is nice, sure… But it’s only got better resistance than its dwarf counterpart if you flank it, has roughly the same HP, deals less damage, has less defense (especially if you compare Armored to Sun Shield)… The Deepguard actually wins in a side-by-side comparison. The difference between them, really, is the Tigran Sun Guard can deal AMAZING amounts of damage to entangled units and has Guard Breaker. And it still costs a tiny bit more gold than even the dwarven pike (60 for the Tigran, 55 for the Deep Guard.)

    As for the Goblin and Frostling pikes: well, duh. They’re Tier 2 pikes. You have to keep that in mind when comparing them. Now, the Goblin Butcher is honestly probably the best pike in the game outside of class units (and then the Goblin Phalanx wins out), and it’s incredibly cost effective (81g), but that’s because their unit lineup lacks a really good “tank” of any kind. It was added to the game for balance purposes. The Frostling fellow just synergizes really well with the other Frostling racial units and has an absorb ability similar to the Martyr, yeah – but again, it’s Tier 2, and its price matches (75g + 10 mana crystals).

    in reply to: Competitive Dwarven Strategies #200756


    First of all, tigran shredders (and hunters) ignore line of sight penalties.

    D’oh. Yeah, I forgot about that – I haven’t played Tigrans in a while (been practicing a couple different combos and been distracted by other video games lately). Point still stands, but they’re great in their racial lineup.

    And yeah – dwarven stacks can be plenty vicious, especially their racial stacks in the early game. There’s just a lot of hidden synergy within the race AND each dwarven unit is really good in and of itself.

    in reply to: Any OP Goblin builds? #200750


    Early game, three or four scoundrels can take out a single hero easily in one turn thanks to sprinting flank attacks and their absurdly high damage.

    Very easily. I can attest to having been on the receiving end of this. It’s also why you should never send out heroes alone to meet your main army in the early game (3 roaming indep scoundrels = 1 dead level 1-4 heroes.

    As an aside: whatever race or class you play, Goblins benefit a LOT from having Rot (from Water), Degenerate (from Wild Magic Adept), or Cardinal Culling (from Grey Guard Adept) as an army. Couple any of those with Blight Doctors and you can make anything susceptible to your armies.

    in reply to: Competitive Dwarven Strategies #200742


    Since that post was probably directed at me:

    I wouldn’t say rubbish. I still think that it is vastly overshadowed by the Elf ranged units and their bonuses. My point is that it’s not head and shoulders above everything else – it’s just average, especially with the costs factored in.

    In my example of the Dwarf Axeman – it’s not a terrible unit by any means, but it’s not an awesome unit that overshadows the competition.

    I’ll take a swing at this one, if I may.

    Okay, so we can both agree that the Elf Longbowman is really, really good. We can probably both agree that the Goblin Swarm Darter is really, really good too, though a lot of people will immediately raise a sign that says “Blight Damage” with a big red cancel sign drawn across it.

    But both the Longbowman and the Swarm Darter do lots of damage and have amazing range capabilities thanks to A) ignoring distance for the former and B) ignoring distance AND obstacles for the latter. Really good units.

    What people don’t realize is that your units don’t live in a vacuum, and that other ranged units are still REALLY, REALLY GOOD… within their race.

    Let’s look at the Tigran Shredder ( ) for instance. On the surface he’s pretty darned “meh.” Okay, so he has high movement speed, a x3 attack that does does alright damage… He gets bleed, he doesn’t ignore obstacles or anything like the two best T1 archers do. So, what gives?

    Well, he has Razor Projectiles and gets Hurl Net at Gold medal. See, lots of Tigran units have Bloodthirsty or Coup de Grace; this means that the Shredder isn’t meant to be a primary damage dealer himself so much as he is meant to do some damage AND enable other units on his team to annihilate his enemies via proccing things (bleed, netted) that give them extra damage. So, yes, he’s really good – in his own race.

    What about Goblin Swarm Darters? They’re flat-out worse than Longbowmen, right? Wrong; being able to ignore obstacles ain’t a joke, especially since you can’t waste every turn casting Seeker (or shouldn’t) toward the mid/late game, and their Blight damage is boosted by the presence of Goblin Blight Doctors, by various afflictions that reduce the enemy’s defenses (Blight afflictions available to goblins)… Etc.

    So, where does the Crossbow shine? Well, a lot of people have observed before that the Dwarf Prospector isn’t that amazing of an irregular, and on that I’ll agree – but you can use the Crossbowman ( ) much like a souped-up irregular. He’s got a total of 11 armor thanks to Armored, gets 22 ranged damage at Gold with the Patron Military Racial Governance perk (or, say, 20 damage at Veteran with that perk – easy to spam Crossbowmen that strong with just a Shooting Grounds and a Pool of the Firstborn or the Dreadguard upgrade that gives archers an extra medal)… He can move at his full speed and still deal his full damage – something elves will never do – and he generally just has better defensive stats than the elf. The guy is no joke.

    But people will ignore all that because they think all the archers in the game live in a vacuum where no other unit type exists, and all the cavalry live in a vacuum where no other unit type exists; etcetera. If you stop and look at how the racial units synergize with each other, you’ll realize that it’s damned silly to assume “<X> is the best ranged unit in all situations.”

    I’m not saying you do that, but I know a LOT of people online that do. And I’ll admit that a few units (such as Dwarf Prospectors) are kind’a weak – but that’s usually by design. (If dwarves had amazing irregulars as well as EVERYTHING else like they do, they’d have even an even bigger edge on everyone else.)

    in reply to: Competitive Dwarven Strategies #200676


    As an aside, Dwarf Crossbows with racial governance upgrades and a few medals feel like T1s with muskets that don’t need to reload.

    No, seriously. Do the damage numbers. It’s not far from the musket.

    in reply to: Any OP Goblin builds? #200579


    Learn the skill “Mighty Meek.” Cast on a Mosquito Darter. Enjoy as he takes down enemy heroes standing on the walls practically by himself. Laugh as attempts to kill him transfer to a Martyr. Throw in Weaken from a Blight Doctor first to make it even funnier.

    I play Goblins a lot, but THAT is something I never tried. Excuse me, going to do that.


    Physical protection would be op I think. And their scales weren’t tough in AoW- they had similar defence to other races

    Precisely – both of those are reasons why I decided against it and came up with two different setups (the one with shock protection and the earlier one I posted).

    And there’s no indication Peninsula of Sobek was settled by anyone after lizards’ fall. AoW3 campaing map shows it’s within Elven Court borders but I think most of Court’s population lives north, closer to Sylvanus. It’s possible Sobek remained almost forgotten for long time.

    I’d be just as happy with that take on their reappearance as well. Indeed, given their warlike history, it would probably make sense if they’ve just been training and breeding and gathering up an army to get revenge on the humans and other races…

    in reply to: Best class for late game on XL sized maps? #200576


    The problem is this is late game. One problem is that goblins – I’m not sure that blight is as useful.

    People give Blight damage a bad rap. It is the most commonly resisted element in the game, but it is by no means useless, ESPECIALLY when you’re a Goblin.

    Here’s what you do: if you want a RACIALLY based army, use Blight Doctors and pack Degenerate. There, problem solved – enemy has 100% weakness to Blight. Or you can use Water magic to cast Rot on machines and undead – you know, those things that are normally 100% Blight immune? Blight Doctors’ Weaken stacks with both Rot and Degenerate, so you can rest assured that you WILL do damage with Blight. You just have to plan around that… and no, it’s not hard.

    Goblins get bonus production, like I said, meaning if you want CLASS based units – which normally don’t focus around Blight damage – you’ll be churning them out faster than other players. For instance, it’s not that hard at all to pump out T3s from each city in 1 turn or T4s in 2 turns without all that much dedication, especially if you’re a Dreadnought. For instance:

    Mana Cells – +20 Production
    Class Buildings (base Dreadnought) – +5 from Blast Furnace
    Class Buildings (racial governance) – +30, 10 from each level

    Which totals to +55 production for a Goblin Dreadnought before you factor in whatever treasure sites lie within your radius, before considering the Siege Workshop… Etc. You can crank out high tier units really, really quickly. THAT is the strength of playing a Goblin late-game.

    This still applies pretty well to Rogues and Warlords because they enjoy the production bonus as well. Warlords in particular can be real beasts when it comes to spamming units. I still prefer Dreadnought thanks to how it plays in tactical combat, but Goblins are much better than people give them credit for.

    in reply to: Best class for late game on XL sized maps? #200529


    Oh: and to go with the above post, Blight Empire from Double Destruction is really nice for goblins on XL maps, I think. Great for defensive play since everyone else has morale penalties there.

    in reply to: Best class for late game on XL sized maps? #200528


    Not sure on the class, but Goblins are great for mass producing things.

    1) Cheaper units.
    2) Racial governance option that gives additional production from their class buildings.
    3) Cheaper settlers at the start, so you can spread out toward the beginning to have a larger bunch of cities at the end.

    Classes that depend on production would be best. Rogue, Warlord and Dreadnought come to mind.

    in reply to: Message for developers. About: new patch #200498


    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ferrus_Animus wrote:</div>
    Imagine if phase had short range and required an enemy within it.

    Imagine if Initiates had athletics and also phase.

    And defensive strike?


    Can you write what “lesser true sight” is? Unit either has true sight or not.

    My idea was pretty much this: True Sight means you see hidden units, period. Scent / Lesser True Sight would mean you only see hidden units within a certain number of hexes around you – say 3 or 4. This means your scouts won’t be able to find hidden units as easily at a T2 support, but it does mean hidden units are less likely to slip by your scouting screen unless your opponent goes JUST through the gaps you leave (if you leave any). Obviously actual True Sight would be better.

    I don’t think cave reptiles are necessary- but there’s no reason lizardfolk can’t be as picky as halflings. They could be more “temperate” creatures. They could like wetlands and maybe water, dislike tropical and blighted, hate volcanic and arctic.

    One of the reasons I think cave reptiles is a good angle is pretty much this: they need to have been hidden SOMEWHERE. A new continent could work, as could a load of other options, but having them hidden away in the underground also serves as a great explanation.

    Also, cave reptiles look cool.

    I have trouble with their racial traits. I think 20% frost and fire weakness would be suitable, swimming for all units, maybe cave crawling and night vision-btw problem with underground isn’t lack of races feeling good there but lack of cave crawling on must of them- but I can’t figure ither positives. Regeneration? Slip away? +1 defence? +5 hp?

    See, my gut instinct is that Swimming for all units would both be TOO good on island maps and TOO useless off island maps. It’s something that should, instead, be reserved for only a few units; this way they don’t outshine humans or frostlings in that arena but can still realistically compete with them.

    That said, Cave Crawling + Night Vision is definitely a good start and wouldn’t “cost” that much. I actually toyed with giving them frost and fire weakness BUT giving them 20% physical PROTECTION to represent their naturally tough hide. Probably not the best idea, though.

    Another setup I had in mind was…

    +20/40% shock protection (due to exposure to certain underwater creatures using Shock; also serves as the first race to actually HAVE Shock Protection)
    -20% Fire and Frost Weakness
    -1 Vision Range
    Cave Crawling
    Night Vision
    Quick Reflexes (+2 Defense vs. first melee attack) – This would effectively function like halfling swordsmen’s old Parry mechanic from Age of Wonders 1. It would mean lizardfolk would be good against initial charges from cavalry and the first round of engagement with enemies, but they’d still be susceptible to archers and prolonged fights.

    T3- Drax’s turtle catapult. I’d just remove wall crushing

    Another alternative could be a turtle ballista. 0 or 1 AP requirement, 1/turn, combine with Wall Crushing and you’ve got a unit that beats down walls hard and can protect itself from ranged enemies to a degree.

    If the catapult WITHOUT wall crushing is used, I’d give it Demolisher so it can still smash apart walls properly.

    Pikemen- I like chainspears. I assume dragging abilty would be short range, and not part of normal attack?

    Yeah, that was the idea. Short ranged drag-enemy-to-you sort of ability that requires activation. Their normal attack would be a normal pike melee attack.


    One last thing I forgot to brought up:

    The lineup I gave above could be changed to have a more ‘earthy’ feel fitting a subterranean race of reptiles, and easily at that. For instance, the Spewer could be replaced by a Rocklobber (lizard that throws a large rock and breaks walls); the Frog Rider could instead ride some sort of subterranean creature; the Water Seer could transform into a Great Worm instead of an eel (meaning it would have pass wall and demolisher and not be limited to aquatic combat). Also, as others have said, the War Turtle could be replaced with a Baslisk instead, probably as a Cavalry unit (so, ridden by a lizardman).

    Oh, and the Water Seer could always transform into a Lurker instead and have Wetlands Concealment at Gold rather than Water Concealment.

    in reply to: Message for developers. About: new patch #200399


    1) Shredder’s currently get Hurl Net on Gold Medal. This could be changed so that they get Hurl Net from the RG upgrade, and we give them a different gold medal upgrade (suggestions welcome)

    I think that’s a nice call. I’m… TEMPTED to say “Inflict Crippling Wounds,” but then you’d have Crippling and Bleeding on one T1 racial unit. Would be really, really juicy.

    I’m short of ideas for this besides that, but option 1 sounds good to me. Shredders are nice as is, especially with the bleed synergies within the Tigran race. Having to choose between hurling nets and doing more damage would be tough.

    EDIT: To explain, it’d be a tough choice because it puts the Shredder at risk as well (short range). The net damage bonus for hurling a net if you have a Prowler on the team would probably be magnificent.


    As others have done, I’ve slapped together a big wall of text of my ideas for Lizardfolk now, including racial unit lineups. It is, perhaps, a poorly conceived set of ideas, but I’d like to present it anyway.

    I think Lizardfolk would work really well as a third underground-friendly race.

    Firstly, it would give them an aesthetic you don’t normally see in games that have lizard-type races. Why? Because they’d be pale due to generations of life in the underworld. Some pictures of example colorations:

    Secondly, this would give more incentive to include the underground in multiplayer maps (as there’d be more races amiable to it), and it would also show how they, like many of the races in Age of Wonders, have changed over the years.

    So, their disliked terrains could be tropical and blight (because they’re no longer as amiable to warm weather as they once were and because the blight is just nasty) and would hate arctic and volcanic terrains (because those are weather extremes they do not want). The problem I see here is most MP games don’t have subterranean terrain, so they’re effectively as picky as halflings outside of subterranean maps. In light of that, making them accept tropical terrain might be a good choice.

    I honestly think they can’t be the kings of the sea with humans and frostlings both claiming different parts of it (humans have Mariner and some Frostling units come with Fast Embark); if lizardfolk had Swimming they’d just be too good at water maps. Instead, I’d lean toward letting lizardfolk share Wetlands Walking with Goblins and giving several of their units Water Concealment. This would let them ambush others in naval battles, but they’d neither be the strongest there (as humans are) nor the quickest to embark (as frostlings are). Perhaps a few of their units could have Swimming, but certainly not the whole race.

    Thanks to living underground, they could have dulled vision since they weren’t meant for such a life. Namely: -1 vision range, but they also have Night Vision, so they still see decently well in the underground. In return, they could have an ability that accentuates the fact that they have had their other senses improve to compensate (such as Total Awareness – but that probably belongs on specific units – or perhaps an innate ability to detect concealed units within a certain number of tiles on the strategic map – not True Sight, but something that would still make them good spotters).

    So, my racial bonuses for the race would probably be like so (unit specific bonuses excluded, obviously)…

    Lizardfolk Inherent Traits

    * -1 Vision Range
    * Night Vision
    * Scent (lesser True Sight)
    * Wetlands Walking
    * -1 Resistance (as they had low resistance in AoW1)
    * +5 Casting Points
    * MAYBE +20/40% Protection versus Cold? Or +20% to both Cold and Blight?






    Arctic, Volcanic

    This probably looks weird. It should, and I’m not sure if it’s balanced; I think they need a slight bonus of some kind to make this… solid. Let me explain, however.

    As scouts, they’re good at finding concealed units, but you’d want to supplement them with class/specialization scouts if possible (such as wisps, zephyr birds, and spy drones) due to their reduced vision range. They can see well in the underground, but not as well as dwarves and goblins, and they don’t have cave crawling. They do, however, have Wetlands Walking, and some of their units would have Wetlands Concealment. -1 Resistance makes them weak to magic, but on the flip side +5 casting points means they have a slight edge in the early game when it comes to spellcasting. +10 casting points would be too much.

    Liking three terrain types (one of them Subterranean, however) means they’ll be relatively easy to keep happy, which is a plus. The terrains they hate could be viewed as “extreme” terrains, as suits a cold-blooded creature adapted to the underworld. Since this also means they’d have decent morale in 1/2 of the game’s region types, their terrain preferences might be enough to give them that slight tactical edge they need.

    So, what is their specialty, then? Well, they have strategic rather than tactical advantages, really. Where some races have bonus damage and others have extra toughness and others still have tactical utility, a couple races have more strategic bonuses to help them win (such as goblins being cheaper to produce). Lizardfolk would fall into that last category. Where goblins achieve this through being the ONLY race to LIKE Blighted terrain and growing their cities incredibly quickly and having both wetlands walking and cave crawling, lizardfolk would have the advantage of being able to detect other races concealed units (HUGELY important) and having just a few extra casting points to toss around in the early game – which could be a huge boon for summoning classes.

    At least, this is how I THINK it would work with these racial bonuses. If I’m wrong, please smack me. But, as for units…

    I think their units should deal physical damage primarily with cold damage as a secondary for things using water magic, as their support would.

    Tier 1 Units

    Irregular – Spewer

    The Spewer is an armorless lizardfolk that doesn’t wear any armor and functions as a short-range harasser. It has slightly better than average melee damage for an irregular because its “ranged” ability requires it to get in close: it spews water in a blast before it, inflicting some damage

    Think of the Engineer’s Blunderbuss for a moment. The Spewer spews out water in a spread of the same size, dealing Physical and Cold damage. This should deal less damage than the amount that either the Engineer’s or Draconian Flamer’s attacks (blunderbuss, fire bomb), but it should be usable in melee. This attack can inflict the Wet condition – a Defense (Cold) check – that reduces enemy movement speed by -8, lowers their Defense by 1, and makes them 20% weak to both Shock and Cold damage. (Notably, no units in the Lizardfolk lineup have Shock damage save one, the T2 support, and only under a certain condition. That will be touched on later.)

    Note: This is the unit idea I’m most unsure of. I don’t think I like how it looks, so feel free to hate it.

    Archer – Bolas Throwers

    Brothritis had the right idea, I think. If not Bolas Throwers, it could just be archers that are trained to aim for their enemies’ legs. I’m inclined to say Inflict Crippling Wounds works better than AP loss, however.

    Obviously, there’s some synergy between these guys and the Chainspears (listed below): you get your enemy out of position and then reduce their movement points, meaning they can’t back up or retaliate too well. I think Guard Breaker on Gold would be interesting, too.

    Honestly, the more I think about it, the more archers suit the race better in my mind (they run short on damage later, as you’ll see). Indeed, I think archers that have Inflict Crippling Wounds could be best. The trouble is such archers would have triple shots along with Crippling Wounds, and that’s… problematic at best. For now, I’ll just say “Bolas Throwers” and move on.

    Pikeman – Chainspear

    The art concept is pretty simple: a guy with a spear that has a chain attached. End of story.

    Chainspears have a bit more damage than they do survivability, but their real advantage is their Chainspear ability: being able to drag an opponent into melee range. This would probably 8 physical damage (not much), but a failed defense (physical) check would drag the opponent into melee range. This would not work on units on walls, but could be used to drag enemies out of formations, to force them into a position where archers can kill them, and otherwise would be nasty.

    These guys would probably need Armored to keep them alive since they’d be putting themselves at risk in order to drag enemies to them. I don’t think shield would work since throwing a spear with a chain attached and dragging someone back to you with it would require two hands.

    Cavalry – Frog Rider

    Lizardfolk mounted on a frog and wielding a trident. ‘Nough said. Probably has the Shield quality.

    These cavalry should have swimming, and this would make them a really good scout for Lizardfolk as well as perhaps an early invasion tool on water-based maps. I also think it would be fitting for them to have the ability to “eat” living units when they kill them in melee, restoring a small amount of their own HP. Perhaps they gain Inflict Bleeding Wounds on Silver or Gold Medal?

    The big weakness to these cavalry would be their fragility as T1 units. They’d be less durable than either pikemen or infantry – low HP, low resistance thanks to being lizardfolk, and perhaps low defense as well. Their advantage would be early-game mobility and high damage (both thanks to being cavalry). I don’t think they need a leap attack of any kind to work; they just need to move fast and hit hard.

    Perhaps the Frog Rider could have Wetlands Concealment? That’s probably too much.

    Tier 2 Units

    Infantry – Tortoise Warrior

    I think Brothritis’ idea was really, really solid. Armored, Shield, Total Awareness… Maybe even Tireless on Gold. This would make for a real tough shell (heh) to crack. Their point wouldn’t be to deal a bunch of damage, but to act as a wall and stop anyone from getting past them. Not much more to say.

    Support – Water Seer

    A religious figure that probably still worships Nimue. Wields the power of water. Probably has a staff as a lot of supports do.

    Damage is physical/cold – the Water Seer fires jets of water at the enemy and has Inflict Wet (like the Irregular). It also has Minor Bard Skills, which helps. Finally, it gets Water Concealment at Gold medal.

    This is all nothing special at first sight (except the Water Concealment; pretty rad). However, they also have Swimming and can transform into a Giant Eel in aquatic combat.

    The Giant Eel would be more powerful than land units due to being an aquatic-only unit / form. It would have a melee attack – physical/shock – and have an increased HP pool. Like the Tigran Mystic’s transformation, it would also restore a small amount of HP.

    The purpose of the Water Seer is to give the lizardfolk a place on the naval scene without replacing either humans or frostlings. It can still be useful on land maps, but it’s not meant to be used en-masse on such maps; rather, it provides morale to the stack it’s in and can do “decent” damage with its water jet attacks. Just as you wouldn’t mass Bards (unless you’re an elf, perhaps), you wouldn’t mass Water Seers.

    One last thought: instead of a transformation ability, the Water Seer could have some sort of buff that increases the Resistance and Cold Damage of a unit they buff, the better to make that unit able to beat the crap out of things and to make up for the lizardfolk’s weakness to magic and Inflict abilities. This would make them more desirable outside of aquatic battles, but still not in large numbers.

    Tier 3 Unit

    Archer – War Turtle

    Okay. So, let me just quote Drax…

    Hit Points: 70
    Move: 28
    Defence: 15 (dat shell!)
    Resistance: 11
    Melee Strike: 14 Phys (weak for a tier 3, but better than most tier 2 cavalry)
    Turtle Catapult 18 Phys
    Wall Crushing

    Turtle Catapult is intended to be a weaker but more user-friendly equivalent of Hurl Boulder. It only requires a single action point to fire, but only has medium range (lorewise, this is because it’s only a small turtle-portable catapult rather than a full-sized trebuchet. Balancewise, it prevents kiting shenanigans). Usage is basically as tanks in both senses of the term – they can advance on a city or an army in the open, bombarding the target and withstanding punishment, and potentially getting in close to chew on something in melee. Magic is something they’re vulnerable too, though.

    I’m using archers with the mounted type instead of cavalry so they don’t end up with the Charge ability. That’s not what turtles do. Particularly turtles with catapults on their backs.

    I think this is pretty much a really idea. I’d argue that it could use Swimming. Potentially, its Defense could be dropped to 14 and replace with Armored and would make for very interesting Dreadnought synergy.

    Racial Unit Synergy

    Okay. So, I hope it’s clear what my idea is given the lineup, but I’ll explain it in full now.

    Tier 1 play is very aggressive. The Chainspears force enemies out of position, which makes it easier for Bolas Throwers and Spewers to shoot enemies and gives Frog Riders a chance to try and take out the then wounded opponent. The trouble is there aren’t any truly durable units for the Lizardfolk at this level – but then three of their units at this tier have ranged attacks of some sort, so that is, perhaps, unimportant. (They could also use Class units to supplement this weakness, such as Martyrs boosting Chainspears or animals screening for an Archdruid’s lizard armies.)

    Tier 2 is when the Tier 1 units get the tanks they’ve been waiting for. Tortoise Warriors are now the front line. The morale boost from having a Water Seer in the stack should help, too, but the Water Seer won’t be doing much damage outside of aquatic encounters.

    The Tier 3 War Turtle is a siege monster that laughs off most forms of attack and can punch through walls. This would easily be the Lizardfolk’s best weapon during sieges besides Trebuchets.

    So, the end result is an army that is incredibly aggressive during the early game but starts moving more like a brick wall toward the late game. The race would probably want to get some serious damage from its class units. The mid-game would probably see tough T2 and T3 units screening for swarms of T1 damage dealers. Certain units might get spammed on Island or Continent maps (Water Seers, Frog Riders, War Turtles if they have Swimming).


    …Uh, yeah, that’s it I guess. I SINCERELY doubt there will be another big expansion with another race, and I SINCERELY doubt my ideas would be used. Still, this is the sort of stuff I’d like to see.

    My biggest concern, really, is that the unit lineup I’ve spat out doesn’t have a lot of raw damage at the higher levels – but, again, that can be made up for with specializations and classes. Indeed, Dreadnought Lizardfolk with Shadowborn Mastery could be interesting if this racial lineup was used, as could Sorcerers of some kind. Theocrat probably wouldn’t give them enough damage.

    But, yeah. This is my lineup idea. Hate it or be “meh” about it, I suppose.

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